Who Should Represent Humanity in Space? Virgin Galactic's Space Pioneer Loretta Whitesides Has a Radical Answer

Episode Highlights

In this profound conversation, Loretta Hidalgo Whitesides shares her vision for preparing humanity for space exploration through personal growth and development. As a thought leader in human spaceflight and founder of SpaceKind (formerly Jedi training), she discusses the importance of emotional intelligence and personal development in space exploration.

Guest Profile

Loretta Hidalgo Whitesides

• Co-founder of Yuri's Night
• Early employee at Virgin Galactic
• Author of "The New Right Stuff"
• Degree in Biology from Stanford
• Master's in Space Studies from International Space University
• LinkedIn Profile

Key Topics Discussed

1. The importance of personal growth and healing before space exploration
2. SpaceKind training program (formerly Jedi training)
3. The Overview Effect and its accessibility on Earth
4. Selection criteria for future Mars missions
5. The evolution of Yuri's Night global space celebrations
6. The role of emotional intelligence in space exploration
7. The future of human space settlement

Notable Quotes

• "If we're just the same people we are here, the same jerks that we are on Earth, it'll be the same problems on different planets."
• "All the magic of my life comes from that phone call, which was the hardest phone call I've ever had to make. But it changed the course of my life profoundly."
• "Let Jon Kraus get the videos, you know, let the professionals... the magic is to be there."
• "Our technology is just doing incredible development, but our souls, our spirits, our beings, our relationships are still primitive."

Programs & Initiatives Mentioned

• SpaceKind: An 8-week personal development program for space industry professionals
• Yuri's Night: Global space party celebrating human spaceflight
• Virgin Galactic: Space tourism company
• International Astronautical Congress (IAC): Annual space industry conference

Song Contribution to Space Traveler Playlist

• "Ramble On" by Led Zeppelin 🎵 Add to Spotify Playlist

Related Organizations

• Virgin Galactic
• Space Generation Advisory Council
• International Space University
• NASA
• 
  

Connect with SpaceKind

For more information about SpaceKind training programs, connect with Loretta Hidalgo Whitesides on

You can find us on Spotify and Apple Podcast!

Please visit us at SpaceWatch.Global, subscribe to our newsletters. Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter!

Transcript

SCP_118_Loretta

[00:00:00] Loretta: all the magic of my life comes from that phone call, 

which was the hardest phone call I've ever had to make. But it changed the course of my life like profoundly. 

Like I don't think I would have my Virgin Galactic ticket to space 

[00:00:13] Markus: Hello everyone, this is the Space Cafe Podcast, and I'm Markus. You know what's truly funny about space exploration? We spend countless hours perfecting our rockets, designing state of the art habitats, and mapping out supply chains to the moon and Mars and beyond. But there is this elephant in the room we rarely talk about.

Who exactly are we sending up there? And I don't mean their job titles or technical skills. I'm talking about who they are as humans. Think about it, when we finally set up those first permanent settlements beyond earth, we're not just exploring technology and scientific expertise. We're potentially exploring every bit of human nature, the good, the bad, and everything in between.

It's like packaging for the longest trip ever, but instead of forgetting your toothbrush, you might accidentally pack along centuries of human conflict and bias. Today's guest has been wrestling with exactly this question. Loretta Hidalgo Whitesides, a veteran in the field of human spaceflight, has dedicated her career to ensuring that space exploration is not just about technological achievements, but about creating a better future for humanity.

With a degree in biology from Stanford and a master's in space studies from the International Space University, Loretta has worked with NASA on astrobiology research and helped lay the foundation for human space travel as an early employee at Virgin Galactic. She's co founder of Yuri's Night, you know, the global space party, and a thought leader who focuses on the human experience in space, offering workshops on space leadership and the psychology of space travel.

And her approach isn't just technical, it's deeply human. Can we send the best of humanity into space while leaving behind our worst tendencies? Is a clean slate even possible? These questions are becoming less theoretical as we edge closer and closer to permanent space settlements. And Loretta has made it her mission to find the Jedi among us, to lead us into this new era.

So strap in for a conversation that's less about the vehicles, the starships that will take us into space, and more about the humans will be sitting in them. Welcome Loretta to the Space Cafe Podcast.

[00:03:12] Markus: Loretta, there has been a lot of talk about colonizing Mars as early as 2028, maybe. I don't know if this is, if this is true or if there's something to it. Do you have any major intel in regard to, to our next big goal as humans?

[00:03:31] Loretta: Uh, uh, hilarious.

Um, no,

I haven't been following, uh, humans to Mars in a long time. I was very into humans to Mars when I was in college. 

[00:03:40] Markus: Mm. 

[00:03:40] Loretta: on the Stanford International Was all gung ho to go to Mars myself. Uh, and, uh, haven't been as, uh, it. You know, I was part of the Underground and went to the

Case for

Mars Conferences in Boulder, Colorado, before the Mars Society was even created, early days.

It was really fun.

[00:04:01] Markus: Would you still go? 

[00:04:02] Loretta: haven't, haven't been, I'm not as drawn to Mars these

days.

blame James Cameron myself, um, uh, he, I watched the movie Titanic in the 90s, uh, after I graduated college and, uh, it was just like

three hours of white knuckle terror, with a

little, like, cold

water and 

[00:04:27] Markus: Yeah. 

[00:04:27] Loretta: like, think I want, there's a line in the movie where she says, you know, I want to die an old woman in my bed and I God, I don't know if this, this journey to Mars could be pretty harrowing, think I want to die

an old woman

in my bed.

I, I 

[00:04:41] Markus: Yeah. 

[00:04:41] Loretta: then I switched my career goals to being on the crew that goes to Mars to

being somebody that the crew

calls 

before they launch for their mission to

Mars 

[00:04:52] Markus: Right. 

[00:04:52] Loretta: moral support. And I'm like, okay, I'm there for you. I got

this.

[00:04:58] Markus: So, speaking of a crew, um, who should go, who should go, um, to Mars? Who should represent humanity on Mars? Who would, if, if you had, if you had the reins over that decision, who would you 

[00:05:13] Loretta: Been thinking about

this for 

years. Um, so I, I would send the

most Jedi people that I could, uh, that can get along. Cause that's going to be the, one of your biggest

[00:05:22] Markus: How would you know?

[00:05:24] Loretta: Um, well, that's one of my gifts as I have a really good ability to read and, and and and 

imagine I'm a matchmaker also So 

I'd be like, Oh, Marcus, Oh, you know 

who you would

love.

I got to introduce you, you know, to Samson. You two would just click. So 

I don't, it's, you know, everyone has their superpower. You know, some 

people it's music, some people it's spreadsheets, you know, whatever, like,

engineering. Um, that's just something I can And I can't even explain how I don't know, just like, it feels like it came in the software, free software

package.

[00:06:09] Markus: Fantastic. So how many? What would the first crew? So you said the best ones you would select? Is it 10 people? Is it 5? 

15? 

[00:06:21] Loretta: Oh,

Uh, you know, in those

in the nineties, we were always like, oh, it should be around six people. That's the minimum crew makeup for the job. So that was the bias we had

And le less

mouths to feed, less oxygen, less space in the small vehicle. Cause this is the nineties. We didn't have, we didn't

have

starships just.

Blowing around. Um, uh, and then of course

there's the other bias that I have from coming of age as a Martian in the nineties, which was reading Kim Stanley Robinson. of course he sends a hundred 

Uh, I think that's a little much.

It's pretty hard to get a hundred people to get

along.

[00:06:58] Markus: Absolutely.

[00:07:00] Loretta: But I think six, I think six, we could, we could 

find a crew of six that could get along. 

[00:07:06] Markus: The question is, What I'm trying to get at is the right choice, the right people, because this is one of your, you mentioned it, superpowers, but also one of your passions, to help us venture out there into the unknown, to rebuild Or settle down on different celestial bodies, but not the humans we used to know on Earth only.

Maybe a better version of those humans. So could you, could you speak to that a little?

[00:07:41] Loretta: Yeah, 

I mean, I like to joke that we, you know, we could go to Mars, but if we're just the same people 

we are here, you know, the same 

jerks that we are on Earth, you know, it'll 

[00:07:51] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:07:52] Loretta: same planet, 

different planets, same same humans. Uh, and it won't, it won't go very well. It won't be 

[00:07:57] Markus: Hmm.

[00:07:58] Loretta: Oh, it might be very interesting, but it

won't be very, pleasant and peaceful.

[00:08:03] Markus: Hmm.

[00:08:04] Loretta: Um, we'll have the same problem. We'll end up with the same And I'm interested in, uh, us going beyond that. So yeah, so we have to bring our best selves, our best, our best version of ourselves, the people who've healed, The most, the people who've healed their intergenerational trauma the most, the can not let things take things personally, challenges and disasters.

And, and, and I, think, wow, I just had a thought. Um, I would say the number one skill set you would need to go to Mars is to be able to Make a, uh, make amends to, to repair relationships.

So it's inevitable,

even with your best 

friend on a road trip that you're gonna

have a disagreement like, why'd

you say that?

Or, I wanted to go to this other restaurant, and you 

[00:08:55] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:08:55] Loretta: you know, you made us go here. Um, and how do you repair? I'm sorry, I shouldn't have spoken to

you that

way in the car back there. was too. I let, I got upset and I didn't treat you the way I wanna 

[00:09:08] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:09:08] Loretta: apologized. So

we need people who can like 

get relationships back on track when they go off track.

They're going to go off track. That's just entropy. Um, and a modern society, we don't have a lot of tools, a lot of practice for how to get relationships back on track. That's why people get divorced. That's 

why people change jobs because they, when things go off track, we don't have the skill sets to repair them.

And I think if we're going to be living in confined environments, if we're going to be living in places where there's 

Anyone of your

10,

000 person O'Neillian space city can kill 

everyone in an instant. We're so vulnerable in space.

uh,

We have to be able trust each other and work out our and find ways settle 

[00:09:59] Markus: Sounds like a huge task to me. to find those

people, 

[00:10:03] Loretta: well not to find

those people,

to become those people.

to 

[00:10:06] Markus: or two. Oh, that's interesting. So you, you think you could, you could, train, like, so what you would do is you would pick the, the astronaut selection that NASA or Elon or whoever is doing it is, is making and then train them? How would that work?

[00:10:21] Loretta: Oh,

fair question. Uh, no, I would, I would just

bias the selection. I mean, that's what NASA does. NASA biases the selection to the 

people who are most, who they think in their interview process are most likely to be able to handle six Station. They already do that. They like, they're interviewing Markus and they're like, he looks a little reactive.

His ego is a little big. Like, I think he's not gonna be able to live in space station. other like they're going to get under his going

to

get pissed off. 

[00:10:54] Markus: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:10:55] Loretta: somebody who's 

more chill. So you have to start, you do have to select? and start for the best, like people who have already trained for that or already are just that way innately.

Like my husband just is that way. I am not, I have to train for

it. Uh, So yeah, you want to select

for it and then, and then on top of the selection train.

[00:11:18] Markus: Let's talk about the, the right viewpoint for humanity, who we are, and what you envision humanity to be. And that is, has to do with the overview effect. So how do we, we maybe we need to go into space to first take a picture of ourselves.

As to who we are and who we want to be, who we could be, and then distill this picture, this image of humans into a selection to then seed other planets. is this the way to go?

[00:11:56] Loretta: Um,

[00:12:00] Markus: Maybe you can explain it, a lot easier and more efficiently than

[00:12:07] Loretta: great. Um,

I think the overview effect is Frank White, the author of The Overview Effect is an extraordinary human being. Uh, and the book is fantastic. think that it's a really powerful um, to be able to look at the earth and shift

it.

I mean, out of a simple level, you could say it's like transcend ego.

all,

let,

let, there's this momentary, like relaxing of ego where you

just sort of fall in love

with earth and everything on it, everyone on want to appreciate it and just protect it. And

personally

think, uh, I've talked to Frank, I'm like, I,

Frank, I think really a lot of the ovary

effect is just that

we

in the space industry, we have all these hard charging, you know, like me, like

type A,

like achiever

addicts.

And we've just been going so hard our whole careers that for some of these astronauts, being cupola window might be the first time they've actually slowed down enough.

[00:13:04] Markus: Um, um, 

[00:13:05] Loretta: to

be bowled over and

move like

that because they didn't have time for it before. Like I've got to get my PhD. I got

to get

my pilot's license.

I'm busy. And then, but once you've made it

and you're on the space station, you're like, you know what? I think I've earned five minutes of, of basking in the earth glow. Um, and so I think it's then that they can

be moved. And I,

I, I love, I was,

there's a

Chris Huey Spence is a Virgin Galactic engineer, incredible human being, wonderful Jedi.

and he gets to

fly, he was selected by, to be one of the

And to fly on one of the early test which I'm

so 

proud of, excited for him, because that was just such an amazing And he was on Instagram

the other day and he said, you know, I think you don't necessarily need to go to space to experience the overview effect,

which I thought was really

beautiful.

Cause it, for me, it really is like any time that you're, Let ego down. You could, you know, you could experience it at the Grand You could experience it

at your child. You could experience it, uh, you know, on the top or just around a campfire with friends. Like any time where you're

slow down

and you drop your ego and you can be just bowled over by the wonder and Um,

be humbled by that. That's, that's powerful. So I think that

looking at, like

you were saying, going to Earth, looking, going to space and taking a snapshot of Earth is sort of a shortcut. Um, and there's 

other ways to do it, to have that experience, um, even without having to, expend the energy 

required to do it.

my mask

to,

to space. Although I do,

[00:14:46] Markus: Exactly,

[00:14:46] Loretta: still hope to go to space, but you know, you don't have to, to have that experience.

[00:14:51] Markus: but it's, it's in fact, um, a very simple observation that we all, we're all making when we're traveling and we are thinking of our beloved ones back at home and suddenly, the mundane, everyday, chores become different and everything becomes different once you're separated from a person you love or a person that is important to you.

So maybe this is the same reaction now and then we need We need a pause. We need a break. And through this break, we can experience things differently. I think this is the overview effect on a personal 

Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Speaking of the, what you just mentioned, you mentioned Virgin Galactic. Um, In, with Virgin Galactic, you are trying to develop something along those lines.

We're trying to help democratize your ideas. Is that right?

[00:15:56] Loretta: Yeah. I mean, it's a really exciting opportunity Virgin Galactic to, you 

know, and Blue Origin and others like, you know, even SpaceX right now, like expanding the community of people who have the opportunity even to people who can't buy the ticket themselves. I mean, so many have already flown ticket or, Um, a crypto, or space for humanity, like gifting the flights to people that they think, would be, you know, the first woman from Mexico or the first woman from Egypt, like these people who could be real trailblazers for 

their,

[00:16:33] Markus: So what is, but am I, please do correct me, but Is that the new right stuff idea that you developed? Is this also connected to Virgin Galactic and your work?

[00:16:42] Loretta: Uh, it's connected in that when I wrote the book, 

um, 

it, it, it, it was to go, it, was to go with my, uh, my book here,

[00:16:51] Markus: Yeah. Fantastic. Now show it show it, show it, again. Yeah. It's got a 

beautiful color cover. Yeah.

[00:16:58] Loretta: Yeah, Yeah, it's sort of a workbook. It's got places to write in it, um, and exercises to um, it's a, it's a journey, you know, and it was a, we had a,

an

accident at Virgin Galactic 

[00:17:13] Markus: Yeah, 

[00:17:14] Loretta: um,

hard

day. It was a and it reminded

me of when,

you know, the Challenger accident with the shuttle happened when I was a school and,

um,

and so, and then the Columbia accident as well, after I'd already worked at NASA. And I always

felt, um, like there was a very human side failure. It isn't just engineering. It isn't It wasn't like somebody made a math things 

happened. Um. It was a lot about human interactions and, no, I don't need help. uh, where we want to do it our way, or we've always done it or that's not a problem.

Like

there

are these communication breakdowns. There are these interpersonal breakdowns 

that, that led to really tragic space accidents. And, and I felt that.

Uh, whole life. And so when it happened that close to home, I was like, okay, we can't let this happen again. And I said, I'm going to do whatever I can.

I've used my, the gifts I've been given. Cause I've been very trained by some extraordinary And I was like, okay, share what I I started Jedi at Virgin Galactic and training our engineers and our space wrenches, are actually every day and touching it putting it together.

and make sure that, you know, Stuff happens. You know, your boss

says something,

you don't get invited to a meeting, someone cuts you off on the way to work in the car, your roommate says something, your mom sends you a text message. Like all those things are impacting and it's impacting your ability to treat your colleagues well,

to, know,

do the right thing in the spreadsheet, to So not let something bother you and something happens. Anyway, so it's affecting the spaceship. And I said, no, this, this can't be. So I wanted to train our staff as much as I could to let things go, to do the self care, to heal relationships that were stressing

them out

outside the office. Cause that 

stuff, your whole life matters.

[00:19:34] Markus: uh, 

[00:19:35] Loretta: Your Your whole life is impacting who you're being when working on So had to help work through differences in their marriages their parents, with their kids, with, with their neighbors, you know, like all that they could be bring, bring their best 

[00:19:54] Markus: So that's your superpower that you just have, that you were born with, right? Because from your college degree, this is not the education that you brought into the game.

[00:20:07] Loretta: no, people are like, Oh, so you have a psychology background. I'm like, I do not have a psychology background. Um, uh, when I was in college, psychology was, was. Did not teach these skills. Um, 

and I wasn't born with

it either. I mean, I have some innate matchmaking skills and some 

[00:20:24] Markus: Uh, uh,

[00:20:25] Loretta: reading skills, 

but, um, Jedi training skills I was not born with.

[00:20:28] Markus: uh,

[00:20:30] Loretta: that would be cool. And I wasn't even born with, like, a level head. Like, I'm a hot,

I'm,

Very prone to anger. Um, so I was just, but that was perfect. It's sort of like an alcoholic. like sometimes I, all the alcoholics I've ever met are grateful

for being alcoholics because then they had to go train

to like function

and life and all that training helped them be people they can be proud of.

And so they're like, Oh, I'm grateful that my life fell apart with alcohol it worked.

And so I, think, I think of us as like addiction

addicts, sorry not addiction addicts, uh, achievement addicts, 

[00:21:07] Markus: uh, 

[00:21:07] Loretta: the same way people have a problem with alcohol, we have

a

problem with like,

being the

achievement, ego.

Mine is called being

impressive,

I want,

I want to be impressive, I like, wow, you did that Loretta? 

Anyway, so yeah, no, I, I got trained in a of those by wonderful humans it helped me survive graduate school. And so I'm trying to 

[00:21:35] Markus: That's great. Fantastic. Um, I'm really glad about that conversation because this, is something that I think touches everyone, um, on this planet because we all have our issues we're carrying along with. Um, I, I, I want to be appreciated, um, for the things I do. And this of course, dates back to maybe how I was brought up and whatever, but you will help.

um, You will help people like me, um, to get over this. Um, so I was, I'm just wondering, that book you just showed us, um, the new right stuff, is this, is this a manual? Or how does it work?

[00:22:20] Loretta: Yeah, it's

a workbook. It's actually the textbook for the 

class I do. So, 

[00:22:25] Markus: Okay. 

[00:22:26] Loretta: I used to teach it in house at Virgin Galactic for our staff. And then during COVID. I had to figure out how to do it over Zoom 

[00:22:33] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:22:34] Loretta: because we do a lot of work with buddies and things. And once I figured out how to do breakout rooms and everything, we took it online.

And so now we, we call it, uh, we

couldn't call it Jedi

training anymore because copyright issues with, uh, Disney. 

[00:22:49] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:22:50] Loretta: so once we took it online, we changed the name to SpaceKind like a play on, you know, humankind 

[00:22:56] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:22:56] Loretta: SpaceKind and a reminder to both space people and kind. And so we do our space kind we've been running that since May May 2020 with Dr.

Cyan Proctor was in our first 

[00:23:11] Markus: Fantastic. Really? 

[00:23:12] Loretta: selected to do her. Yeah. After her training, she got selected to do her orbital flight. she 

[00:23:21] Markus: Wow. What a testimonial. Um, that's, If that's okay for you, let's um, go down that rabbit hole and give us a little bit of an insight. Let's go into your book, into your manual, into your workbook book and why don't you, why don't you, walk us through some of your secrets and how that 

[00:23:44] Loretta: Sure. 

Uh, so it's a hero's journey. So I'm a star Wars. I'm a

Jedi, so obviously we're going to use Star Wars 

and that, you know, Star Wars, like many of the classic tales, they follow the hero's journey. So the hero, you know, your, your call to adventure and then 

[00:24:00] Markus: Mm. 

[00:24:00] Loretta: of the mentor like Yoda, and then there's the trials, you know, like training in Dagobah, going into 

[00:24:07] Markus: Mm. 

[00:24:07] Loretta: So we go 

into the cave, we face our dark 

[00:24:13] Markus: Mm. 

[00:24:17] Loretta: you get to sort of 

tell the truth to yourself about the stuff you've avoiding. shame, where you have shame and embarrassment Oh, that.

[00:24:31] Markus: Mm. 

[00:24:33] Loretta: You get to it, you will, you get to at some point in your life or you die with it. You die with that shame and,

and 

sadness and regret. And, and so we're like, no, like open the doors, let in the free yourself from the shame and the regret. And then you don't have. You're lighter. You know, I share about how, uh, you know, there's a NASA astronaut, uh, Leland Melvin. He's an extraordinary human he used to play, uh, African American, used to play in the NFL, the American Football League. Um, and he's the only person

to have played in the NFL

and then been selected to be a NASA astronaut.

Uh, so he's just, Extraordinary,

He's got a PhD in

engineering, I uh, and he's, anyway, he's got these two great dogs that are in his official NASA astronaut photo where the dogs are 

[00:25:23] Markus: Mm. Mm. 

[00:25:25] Loretta: the warmest, 

[00:25:26] Markus: hmm. 

[00:25:27] Loretta: extraordinary human being. And he wrote his autobiography, and in it he shares about how

was,

uh, assaulted by the neighborhood And he said, I had to wait until my father to share this story because I was worried that my dad would, know, go 

[00:25:48] Markus: Do something. 

[00:25:49] Loretta: revenge

Um, but it was so courageous and so brave of 

him share that, you know, something that traditionally, and at least in the United States, you'd have so much shame and you wouldn't want to share.

And you just want to take that secret to your grave,

[00:26:04] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:26:05] Loretta: but, there's something like when you can just say your piece on stage and just share it with the world and say like, you know, this happened

and I'm letting it go and I've forgiven those people and I've moved on and I'm a successful, extraordinary human letting 

that go.

So. I think that's success, is when you're not, when you can be fully who you are 

with nothing held back. Uh, and I think that's why you see so many successful people and wealthy um, who are miserable, who are addicted, or who are suicidal. Because, like, being wealthy and being famous and being powerful won't help you.

heal those

[00:26:48] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:26:49] Loretta: you still hate who you are, you're 

still carrying all that all the money and all the power and all the success, all the Academy Awards won't make you feel any better. I'm interested. Like, yes, I want you to go to space. Yes, I want you to go to Mars. Um, and, Make sure you're doing this healing first so that when you get there, you are 

[00:27:11] Markus: How long does that process 

[00:27:15] Loretta: Well,

years, I mean a decade, I would say. I

mean, depending how 

much, I mean, I, we heal, we try

to,

like, for example, this week week five, uh, it's an eight week journey, hero's and

in week five, the hero faces death. So this week we wrote our obituaries and we're,

our,

our week, our challenge this courageous conversation with someone in our

life.

So,

you know you 

need to talk you've been putting off 

talking and now, and nobody gives you a deadline for There's no, in your normal life, but I, you know, we're like in the class,

we're like,

nope, Markus, you gotta call him. You gotta call him this week. And we'll support you and give you coaching and, 

I know it's scary, or I know you're afraid he's going to say this, but, okay, like, come from this place and You know, peaceful in yourself and give you the

courage

to something you've been putting off for 

[00:28:13] Markus: How does that

[00:28:14] Loretta: times, like 15 courageous conversations, and there's, it's funny how there's, you never run out of people you need to talk to. So yeah, so I, I say, I, you know, I lead this a couple times a year, so it's like, anyway, it's, there's always more to heal. There's always more. To forgive, there's always more to love about yourself.

Like I'm still working on 

feeling worthy of love. Like, even though I've been doing this kind of work for 20 years, still, you know, there's still more layers of the onion to peel back 

but

it's, but you know, every time you do it, you get more freed up, more in your own power, more more 

loving, joyful, it's a worthwhile journey. 

[00:29:00] Markus: How do people usually react throughout this chapter, like the one you just I mean, like, I could imagine they're kind of hesitant to venture into that dark cave, into that pain cave, but then once through I don't know what the percentage of participants is that makes it through that process and comes back out alive again.

How do they react?

[00:29:29] Loretta: amazingly, like they're so, they're like, I didn't know I needed this.

Like I signed up

because, you know, I wanted to be a better leader at work, but I didn't realize how much all, you know, this relationship with my brother was weighing 

[00:29:42] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:29:43] Loretta: was holding me back. And now I'm, or like I've had, I mean, just the most heart, Beautiful stories.

Like,

um,

our final, the final challenge of the eight weeks is to upgrade your relationship with your parents. cause that's your first relationship 

it's,

You know, I didn't want to, like

when I, 

when someone first told me that when I was 27, they're

like, okay, go talk to your dad. I'm like, hell no.

Do 

you know my dad?

He's an idiot. No way. I have no 

interest. What's the point? I don't

want him in my life. I don't need him in my life. I

don't care.

I'm not interested. And they're like, go talk to your dad.

And,

you know, eventually I started

to see, okay, okay, maybe there's some value.

Anyway, but I did it.

I had to do a lot of work before I was ready

to do

that. I had to

Forgive

him and

see

my role in the, in the breakdown, you know, we're not ever a hundred percent, you know, not, you know. Anyway, but out, of that

got my whole life, got the ability to have my romantic 

relationships work, got the ability to have my, to have kids, to have my kids have an awesome grandfather.

Like 

so much magic, all the magic of my life comes from that phone call, 

which was the hardest phone call I've ever had to make. But it changed the course of my life like profoundly. Like

I don't think I would

have my Virgin Galactic ticket to space if I hadn't had I Healed

my 

[00:31:11] Markus: Done that, 

[00:31:12] Loretta: And at 27,

that was not,

I didn't, that math,

I didn't see those,

I didn't see those

things

as connected

at all. But they, but it turns out,

looking back

in time, they were incredibly And I've had

students you know, she took on her relationship, calling her dad and

the, saying the things that had been putting off saying and everything that was on her heart 

and, and forgiveness and reconciliation and coming back together and connection.

then her dad got diagnosed with cancer and died unexpectedly, 

[00:31:48] Markus: No. 

[00:31:49] Loretta: six months later. Um, and if she had, she said, if I hadn't had that assignment, you know, you know, we would have stayed 

sort of estranged. was dying, 

[00:32:00] Markus: Mm. 

[00:32:01] Loretta: we had already healed our relationship, I

was able

to be with him and support him and have everything healed when he died.

Like just. You, you know, how do you, priceless, like you can't put a price 

[00:32:15] Markus: Yeah. 

[00:32:16] Loretta: difference that it makes

in somebody's life

to have their

dad, have their dad die in it's

Amazing. 

[00:32:24] Markus: Amazing. So all in all, your role in all of this is to be a cleansing tool, a cleansing tool for, humanity or whoever is taking part in your course to become better, they're better or best selves, um, and, and, and, and, and, And this process, this stripping away of that, those leftovers, those the dark sides that will then it's, it's like washing gold.

Like you you are digging for those gold nuggets and you're right,

[00:33:05] Loretta: Yeah,

[00:33:07] Markus: and and so, and this is a tedious process because you're standing in a raging river now and then maybe, and there's a lot of dirt and, and mud involved. But at the end. You're digging for those gold once you have them, it's there's something you can do with them.

And maybe this is also something that you're trying, if I understand you right, you're trying to, you're trying to elevate us into, into that gold nugget process. That will never end, of course. So there will never be that moment where you say, okay, you're finished, you're the perfect human, but you're a better human now than before.

And, and now you're ready. Now you may be ready to represent us on that space mission. Is, does that make sense?

[00:33:59] Loretta: absolutely. That's a beautiful metaphor too. I love rivers. So and it affects our space stuff. I mean, I've had so many participants say, report that they have a breakdown and at work with a colleague, and you know, if you're working on a space mission, if you're going to have a. you know, It's going to affect the mission.

I've had people even say they have

a conflict

with somebody who works in mission control.

Like,

You don't want to have a breakdown with somebody who works in mission control. And so it's been very heartening to have people that have come back at the 

end of the hero's journey and say, you know what?

uh,

I don't have a problem with that person You know, we're working, we're working together Went from 0 percent relationship to 80 percent Or, now I can work with Mission Control. And 

it's like, okay, good. know, let everyone be able to work with Mission Control. That would be, leveling up of our, our missions that would be.

[00:34:54] Markus: And so this course is. is. this is happening together with Virgin or is this your individual, your personal thing?

[00:35:03] Loretta: Uh, now it's

outside of Virgin. So we, we were in, in, in house for five years, uh, uh, and now it's opened up. So we've got people Blue Origin and SpaceX and NASA and, um, Paragon and, all, Planet and all, all kinds of different 

[00:35:21] Markus: Okay. So you're doing this for the companies, for the agency, so you wouldn't do it for a random stranger who would say, Hey, Loretta, help me become my better self.

[00:35:32] Loretta: It's open up to

any, it's on LinkedIn. So anyone in space and

[00:35:35] Markus: Okay. 

[00:35:36] Loretta: is welcome. And we even have people from outside the space industry who join us, you know, from referrals or word of mouth. They're like,

well, I'm not a space person.

Um, but I, I realized that this is probably important for or I 

[00:35:47] Markus: And this is, yeah. is, Is this already something

uh,

on the curriculum of the companies and the agencies that's like an official thing to do, or is this a nice to have experiment for them?

[00:36:04] Loretta: Uh, no, there's no company.

You can, you can be the first.

There's no company or

agency that has this as their official curriculum. And to be honest,

I, I,

I, I'm not even like trying to do that. Um, 

[00:36:17] Markus: Mm. 

[00:36:17] Loretta: find the work is most powerful when an individual chooses it and seeks it out and wants 

[00:36:23] Markus: Mm. Yeah. 

[00:36:25] Loretta: it's, it, I find it never works as well when your mom or 

[00:36:29] Markus: Mm. 

[00:36:30] Loretta: or, 

[00:36:31] Markus: Do this. 

[00:36:32] Loretta: does.

So. You know, they tell you, I need you to do 

[00:36:34] Markus: Yeah. 

[00:36:35] Loretta: space guy training by

October

for you to be eligible

for a promotion. They're like, okay. And it's

[00:36:41] Markus: Yeah. I want to see good grades.

[00:36:43] Loretta: yeah, nope. They have to, they have to, they have to be like, oh my 

gosh,

[00:36:48] Markus: Yes. It's a mission. 

[00:36:49] Loretta: frustrated. I'm so burnt out. I'm

so irritated by my colleagues.

Like I thought

this would be different. It's not. And I'm or I'm at a, Turning point and I know I'm this group

job isn't right I know I need to be somewhere else like like when you're 

when they have the internal motivation like I need I need something I need something to help me Navigate where I'm supposed to be headed next.

I'm like, okay, great. you're ready

[00:37:15] Markus: All this brings me also now to something that you were also focusing on that is the mission to develop your own mission in life. Why do you think that 

is

[00:37:30] Loretta: Hmm,

I think

because

without an intention. We're so much more at the 

mercy of Like the chaos of life. like, like in level space kind of level two You start

you start

every 

day reading your

life and to ground you and to remind you of what you say is most important to you. Like, I want to be calm today. I want to be grateful I want to be present today. I want to be generous today. I want to like non reactive.

I want, I want to support the people around me. joyful. I want to dance. I want to laugh. want to, and I want to forward, um, future for the universe that works for all And so, you like Center your energy and your attention around that. So then when somebody cuts you off on the freeway on the way to work, you're like, want life to work for all beings, including that being that just cut me off. So

you've just presenced it. You like, You set the intention. So it's like helping your reactions 

intentionally and not just letting like

human, your ego run the show, which is like,

why are you, who do you think you are driving like

that? that? And then like, 

[00:38:56] Markus: Yeah, 

[00:38:57] Loretta: then I'm upset for 20 minutes while those chemicals are going through my body. 

So like having you, putting you in the driver's seat of your life well, even that, okay.

hmm.

There's also a piece for me about,

um,

listening for what the universe wants me to Like maybe my ego doesn't know what's best. Maybe I also have to listen like humbly how I can best be of service. help, go help, Guidance like, maybe that won't help me get my promotion or 

get a seat on the mission, but, um, that's what, that's what I can see is needed in environment 

[00:39:52] Markus: It's very interesting, because you mentioned or you used a lot of adjectives, when I asked you about a mission. So You didn't, you wouldn't say a mission could be a certain job, for example. So I would even go as far as to say, becoming or wanting to become an astronaut is not a mission in one's life because it's just a job.

You need to, you need to do, you need to work a lot harder. Why do you want to become an astronaut? I want to become an astronaut in order to, I don't know, educate, you know, humans about the beauty of space or whatnot. So am I understanding you right? Maybe even becoming an astronaut or wanting to become an astronaut is not the mission you're talking about.

[00:40:36] Loretta: Exactly. And, and that's 

actually one of the pitfalls that's very common in our industry. Like 

I want to get a job at X company or I want to

[00:40:44] Markus: Hmm.

[00:40:45] Loretta: you know, I want to be an astronaut. And then, and this myth that if you

do that, if you check that box, then,

[00:40:52] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:40:52] Loretta: you know,

everything will

be fine. And, you know, those of us who've lived through stuff, we know

that you can get that

job and there's still a lot more. To do.

it's, You're

not done. You're not like, okay, I made it. And even an astronaut, I mean, I had, one of the things I put in the book 

is I have an astronaut friend committed suicide. After 

retiring from NASA and 

You know, just as a reminder just to break apart that myth 

The same as the wealth, you know famous people committing suicide You know that

just because

you've made it just because you've achieved 

the ultimate thing you went to space with NASA um, mean all your 

problems are solved or all life's gonna work out is there's more to doing

that.

there's more than you can do being an astronaut. So yeah, why do you want to be an astronaut?

What are you, you

know, what still

like, cause then once you get an astronaut, then when somebody

cuts you off,

from, you know, on the street, how are you going to

remind

yourself? Yeah. So you need a bigger, a bigger context for your life of what you're here to do. serve, educate,

inspire,

bring together, unify,

what are you, what are you, what is your life about?

[00:42:08] Markus: Before we move on to a completely different topic, is there one more Jedi move or superpower you could share? I really like that one with make a phone call, make the uncomfortable phone call. I like that one. Is there another one you could share?

[00:42:25] Loretta: Uh, yeah, that's a lot.

Um,

the week before we did an integrity sprint. So like 

Luke

in Dagobah, like the way we trained for the ordeal is we did an integrity sprint. Like you look for the things you're most avoiding in your life that are most hanging over you, the taxes, the

the

student loan, you know, the, the thing in the garage, like the thing, anyway, the car, the health, the medical thing you haven't done, you know, and just like, aside, you know, two hours on one day to just get all the appointments made and take the thing in and

that

you've been putting off.

And so like getting all that to not bother you. And then the other one we do is, uh, Jedi listening.

we do a whole exercise in course, call, um, to have you experience what to Jedi listen. And so we train people in like giving someone their full eye contact, you know, and like that, that it's your, the energy of you as a listener.

that brings out the best And then if you're checked, if you get distracted and you're Like the speaker could lose their place. there's, you matter that much to them. And so we train people in like, you know, at

a talk, if you're going to

IEC next week, you know, sit in the front of the room, you know, put your phone down, you know, don't live tweet, like tweet, tweet it after, It's after the talk, but during the talk just fully listen to the person and give them, you know, smile, give them eye contact,

like laugh at their jokes, like clap

when they do something cool, you know, and then,

and

they're going to give like an even better talk because of, you know, who you're being in the audience.

[00:44:09] Markus: This is, um, that's so true. I just, I just made an interesting observation. I had to force myself, um, during my first rocket launch I've ever witnessed so far at Kennedy Space Center, the, the Hera mission. And when I saw that Falcon 9 rocket, I forced myself not to videotape it on my smartphone because then I would, and I would also be distracted and not even appreciate what's going on in real time.

So this is, this is something I needed to, to force myself into doing because we're so used to catching those moments and then they're gone because there was a, there was thick clouds. And so the only, I had like 15 seconds or so of visible spacecraft and 15 seconds. I mean, like that's very, very quickly gone when you're fumbling around a smartphone.

And so I think this is exactly the Jedi listening moment that I experienced the other day.

[00:45:09] Loretta: I'm so glad you did that, Markus. That was a great move. Everyone should do that. Yeah. Let Jon Kraus get the videos, you know, let the professional, there's going to be way better videos online than you could ever get. just, the magic is to be there. Really well 

[00:45:25] Markus: I had a, I'm, I'm remembering that moment when I was a lot younger in the nineties, sometime in the nineties, my first, my first time in, I think Death Valley, it was my first time with a friend in Death Valley. We're sitting, we're sitting on top of a mountain. I was in awe of what I was seeing. And I was trying to put that. make a couple of photos. Back then there were no smartphones, it was a traditional photo camera. And my friend says, stop making photos. It's all up here. Look at this, stop making photos, you won't need them. And I, for whatever reason, I'm reminding myself of that, that moment, because he was so true. He was absolutely true.

And now we're talking about it decades later So thank you for that.

So, um, Loretta, um, you have Um, too little to do in your life. This is why you are building, you're adding a bunch of additional challenges to your life and that is Yuri's Night, for example. Um, so Yuri's Night has become quite, quite a success globally. How did it originate?

[00:46:48] Loretta: Um, when I first got to NASA in Houston uh, it was at 

the end of the Cold War Soviet artifacts the United States for the first uh, you know, at that time it was very exotic and We didn't know much about era because it was all behind the when I was growing And, um, I was always, I was always enamored with it. I was always fascinated by it. And so I was excited. I

went

to

and it said, First in Space. And had a big picture of Yuri Gagarin and it said April 12th, 1961. And I was like, what? Are you kidding me?

Because

the first shuttle launch was April 12th, 1981, 20 years later to the day. Uh, and I was like, this is incredible. And I knew that in 2001, this was in the nineties. So So

2001 still

coming up and 2001 was. The coolest space year, you know, it's going to be amazing. So futuristic. And so I knew April 12th, 2001 would be the 40th anniversary and the 20th

anniversary and in this space year, and it, and it felt like

this incredible opportunity to

celebrate the power of space, to bring the world together.

Because in the nineties, you know, President Clinton had just said we were going to cooperate with the, with the Russians, now that the Soviet Union has collapsed broken up and we're going to do a space station together with, with our former rivals. And it was just, it just felt like magic.

I mean, in those days,

anyway, it was a different time,

a different relationship with Russia in

those days, but we, we were just starting.

and we were, um, we, we ever, there's this, there's this,

belief that we could we could come together

And I was so excited about that and like Association of Space Explorers and Apollo Soyuz, like there was all this, like, maybe space can bring us together.

Maybe we can heal And so we started this project. I went to the UN, the United Nations had their third ever space conference in 1999. So I went there, that's where I met my husband George 

and some other extraordinary people like Will Marshall and Jesse Cowan.

[00:48:59] Markus: Mm 

[00:49:01] Loretta: um, the UN, we were all youth delegates and the UN asked us to propose ideas to UN of And so we said, you should start this thing. World Space Holiday.

Um, and so all the other young youth delegates at the, at the event with us at Space Generation Forum, uh, which is where Space Generation Advisory Council, launched it there at that founded it. and we also founded Yuri's Night. And so the other people were there were like, we want to host this celebration in our countries too. And so

we're like, okay, great. Why don't we make this, Open source, distributed around the world, like, uh, space party to celebrate the end of this and this joint anniversary the power of space to bring the And so we've been doing it ever 

[00:49:54] Markus: Is this like, no, it's a global event, 

[00:49:57] Loretta: Yeah. So it's, it's cool. Cause we'd like in Japan, April 12th is also a space anniversary of the, 

their first rocket launch as well. And it's the day that International Space Service

was founded.

So there's lots of places around the world where. People are doing it in Germany. They have a, very strong, uh, Yuri's Night presence uh, in Mexico.

And, and so it's, it's been great to see the first year there was parties in different cities around the world. And the 50th anniversary of human space flight, there's like 200 parties And now we do this, uh, at the IAC as well. So usually Yuri's Night is around April 12th because that's the anniversary.

Um, And in

October,

Um, we have the International Astronautical Congress, which is where instead of The parties being around the world, all the people from around the world go to one place for a big space conference. This year, the International 

Astronomical Congress is in Italy, in Milan.

[00:50:55] Markus: mmhmm,

[00:50:56] Loretta: all the people, space people from around the world are all going to Milan. and So we also started,

thanks

to Yuri's Night Germany and Bremen in 2018,

we've started, they started this tradition of hosting a 

Yuri's Night event at IAC. And so 

[00:51:11] Markus: mmhmm, 

[00:51:12] Loretta: Um,

all the space

community can celebrate Yuri's Night together, which is really fun too. And then,

[00:51:18] Markus: mmhmm,

[00:51:19] Loretta: get a feel for what it's like.

It's, it's a unique thing, mixing music and space and art, and then, see, be like, oh, this is fun, this is cool to

dance to space music, and then take that back to their

countries and do it in April. 

[00:51:32] Markus: for everyone in amongst our audience, um, who's not familiar with the, with Yuri's Night, um, what is it in a nutshell? Are there any rituals to it? Um, can anyone participate? Do you need any skills?

[00:51:46] Loretta: Anyone

can participate, you just go to yurisnight. net and, 

uh, click start a party, and if you

if two or more are gathered,

uh, it's a, it could be a yours night party. You could do it at your house. You could do it at a local bar. You could do it at a. A club or a university or wherever you can host people.

um,

People have done rocket launches. They've done movie nights. They've done costume parties, uh, trivia. I like dance

parties,

So we have like dance music. It's a lot, there's a lot of good space dance Nicki Minaj, you know, Starships. always a good one.

um,

you can dance too. And then, um, in,

in, um, At IAC and

at, uh, our, our, the Euros 8 flagship events we host in California and Florida under the retired space shuttles.

Uh, we usually, our, our recipe is usually, uh, a flown astronaut, um, talk to like have them share first hand their experience that the people who are

[00:52:46] Markus: Mmhmm,

mmhmm, mmhmm, 

[00:52:47] Loretta: costumes. Uh, cocktails, uh, and then a DJ dance party. and, and art and, and space groups. We have like, you know, nonprofits space companies,

like bring

hardware or show and tell, or things that they can, um, share with people who

are coming.

like, you know, have a meteorite you can hold or, uh, space glove you could put on, or, you know, just 

different fun things for people to do.

Uh, and, and I, I think what people really love about it, I think Part of the magic of Yuri's Night

is that it's a

big party, a big club you can go to, and you know everybody there is a space person

like you,

So you sort of feel like you belong, or like you can go up and talk to anyone or be like, Oh, that's a cool shirt, Markus.

Like, what? Do you work? Do you work

at SpaceX?

You know, and like

just start a conversation with anyone. geek out on space stuff with anyone.

[00:53:33] Markus: Fantastic. I'd like to, to now try to go even in more visionary and philosophical realms, where there is more than one answer, and maybe no answer at all. I'm just wondering, where in, in history, we as humans are, in this pocket in time, are we finally becoming an interplanetary species? Is this the moment that we're witnessing?

[00:54:06] Loretta: Uh, yes,

we're definitely at a very important inflection point, a very important turning point for our Um, you know, in Hollywood, they, you know, they always show. The people, the time travelers always come back to this time to like

fix

things, you know, maybe

not have us go down the AI path,

like in the Terminator.

Like, like

that was a bad idea.

[00:54:27] Markus: exactly. 

[00:54:27] Loretta: not do that.

Um, and so

[00:54:31] Markus: But we're 

not listening. We're, 

not listening. We're, we're building AI like 

crazy. 

[00:54:36] Loretta: know,

I know. Come on, go watch the Terminator again. 

[00:54:39] Markus: exactly.

[00:54:42] Loretta: How many movies do we

have

to make that show you this is a bad idea, Ter? I, not sure why

Silicon Valley and Hollywood haven't gotten together on this one, but but um, yeah So I

think this is important.

And the other thing that I like to think about or challenge people with

is that

you know, there's this natural tendency to think like

we're

the,

all of history

has led to this moment. Like we are it, we have achieved

But, take it down

a notch. Now fast forward 500 years. How are they going to look back on us 500 years from now?

I mean, we're going to look really primitive. 

[00:55:19] Markus: Hmm. 

[00:55:19] Loretta: I'd really, I mean,

like in the Star Trek, they

would say, you know,

barbaric.

[00:55:24] Markus: Yeah. Provided, provided we're still around.

[00:55:27] Loretta: Provide, yes.

Fantastic point, Markus. Yes. Should we be so lucky as to not annihilate, 

[00:55:33] Markus: yeah, 

[00:55:33] Loretta: ourselves or brought

on our annihilation?

Um, yeah. Or the AI who are still there will judge

us like, God, 

[00:55:40] Markus: exactly. 

[00:55:41] Loretta: they 

So just

to,

you know, just

to end it. And it's just, it's, it's just practical

science. Like if you look back

You know, we didn't understand what radiation was.

We didn't

understand what bacteria and germs were. 

know, just like, 

[00:55:58] Markus: It's just a hundred years. 

[00:55:59] Loretta: fundamental things. Yeah, thank you, a hundred years. 

[00:56:03] Markus: Yeah, 

[00:56:03] Loretta: things, like basic 

Biology, basic physics that now every grade school kid understands.

and and we use both

of those

tech, You know radiation

we use for MRIs and we use for, you know, 

helping with cancer treatments, 

uh, we used for energy source, you know, for space rocket, for space missions, like radiation. When we understood, once we figured out radiation, we were like, Oh, That's game changing.

Like, that changes the, whole game. Now that we understand about radiation, well, we didn't understand about it before.

And bacteria

is the same thing. Like,

oh, doctors have to

wash their hands before they do surgery? We had no idea! That's

[00:56:42] Markus: yeah, 

[00:56:42] Loretta: now we don't die,

and we made penicillin. So, massive, massive game changers by understanding just basic little things about physics and biology.

And so, now, I want us to take on the humility of like, okay, What is the next basic, basic concept in physics and biology that we just haven't discovered yet? We just haven't mastered or don't understand or don't That's right there,

living with us,

but just we don't know about. it's going to just change the game.

[00:57:12] Markus: maybe, 

maybe this is, maybe this is happening with AI at the moment. Because, because I could imagine that AI is a magic tool or is becoming a magic tool. Right now it's a useful tool. But once AGI comes in, is around, provided we will ever develop something like this. There's a lot of criticism against it, and some voices for it.

But still, um, maybe this is the magic wand, not for the rest of humanity, but maybe as an important stepping stone, like the magic wand, like, like the one was when electricity was Um, discovered, or when, I don't know, um, flight, uh, aeroplanes were, were invented and whatnot. The internet and whatnot. So maybe artificial intelligence is one of these building blocks to bring us into an essentially new place as humans.

Maybe. I don't know. What, what do you think?

[00:58:13] Loretta: uh, I think that's definitely true. There's a lot of promise. Um, but 

think

challenge is we're not, you know, there's

just a great quote that we are, you know, um, prehistoric. Like

biology

[00:58:29] Markus: Yeah.

[00:58:30] Loretta: minds with Neanderthalic, you know, in systems, governance, And uh, and God like technology.

[00:58:37] Markus: Yes.

[00:58:38] Loretta: And so like, we're just

our technology Is just doing incredible development, but our,

Souls,

Our spirits, our,

[00:58:47] Markus: Yes.

[00:58:48] Loretta: beings, our,

[00:58:49] Markus: Yes.

[00:58:49] Loretta: our relationships are 

[00:58:52] Markus: They're still, we're still cave people. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

[00:58:55] Loretta: cave people. And so I, I'm

really, I'm really

hopeful that AI

can help us

[00:59:01] Markus: Yeah. 

[00:59:01] Loretta: do 

a better job on ourselves,

but, but it can also, but something that powerful can

also be misused. So we need to really work on how do we. You know, upgrade our own, our own firmware, our 

own software. Um, so we're ready responsible 

stewards of that

[00:59:19] Markus: Maybe. Um, and then we can. Um, let AI take its own its own path, but maybe AI can take care of the chores and everyday things that humans shouldn't do in the first place because we shouldn't be on this planet to just make money. This is the first fallacy. I think we're, we're, we we're trapped in at the moment that we think that life is all about making money, but it's, it should be about something else and this something else should be.

Now our. The main goal as humans to find out what it is, why we're here on this planet, because I think that a very, very tiny fraction of humans really commit their thoughts to answering this question. But this should be the main goal of anyone on this planet, in my opinion. So maybe AI could help us here to get rid of the tedious, tedious work, make some money for us.

And we are free to roam our minds and the planet to find out, find out about ourselves, why we're here, maybe.

[01:00:25] Loretta: That's, 

that's beautiful, Markus. 

[01:00:27] Markus: Yeah. 

[01:00:28] Loretta: Star Trek and, and like how they have a moneyless society.

well, I guess, I guess it's, you know, like, do the thought experiment. Like what other model, you know, we don't have to do do things the way we've always done them. What else, what else is So yeah, that's, I'm interested 

in creating the culture of the science fiction future to go along with all of our Because if we 

have all the tech, but we're still being, you know, jerks, it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be as cool as the science fiction 

[01:00:59] Markus: Um, Loretta, would you, you already mentioned you would want to go to space, but, um, does that have limits? Would you, would you go to the moon, to Mars? Would you even go beyond?

[01:01:12] Loretta: My goal is So my goal is to I would 

[01:01:17] Markus: like, that. 

[01:01:18] Loretta: would like to take a retirement cruise around Uh,

you know,

so you guys got to figure out

the radiation thing for me. Come on. I

need an active

shielding system. 

Uh, I want to go out to Saturn. I want to go to Titan where

there's an

atmosphere.

and you

don't need a pressure suit. is

that? And like, we can have a clear enough day where you could see the rings of Saturn from Titan. That'd be freaking cool. Um. 

[01:01:44] Markus: I would 

how long would it take you to get there?

[01:01:48] Loretta: it took Cassini six years to get to Saturn. 

[01:01:51] Markus: Okay. 

[01:01:51] Loretta: so we're going to have to improve on that. So come on, 

we need, we need to.

And I, and I, and I probably, me and my life support 

system are going to take, are more, has a lot more mass than Cassini. So, but you know, technology, you know, technology is, always, I got 40 years. So I think there's some amazing things are going to happen in that 

[01:02:11] Markus: Now I'm asking because on this show we keep asking this question to Every guest we have in the studio. And the question is for that long journey, it will get boring at some And after the initial excitement has worn off. So my question to you is what one piece of music. Which you want to have on your, on your interplanetary space travel playlist, because this, we do have that, um, playlist on Spotify.

So it's called the playlist for the aspiring space traveler, and it consists of contributions from all the guests on this show. So now the question to you, what's the one tune you wouldn't want to miss?

[01:02:58] Loretta: Uh, Led Zeppelin

ramble on.

[01:03:01] Markus: Fantastic. It's not taken yet, so I'll put it online in a second. Fantastic.

And

Another question. So this show is called the Space Cafe Podcast. It's a coffee place, so to say. And now and then you go into coffee places to energize yourself, to have an espresso

um, when you're tired. Now I challenge you to share an espresso for the mind with me.

A shot of inspiration you feel like could be could be meaningful and inspiring for audiences. Now, and you can pick whatever kind of

[01:03:41] Loretta: Wow, gosh, 

Wisdom on Demand. 

[01:03:45] Markus: Yes. And I'm not even paying for it.

[01:03:51] Loretta: feel like I was just giving some really good advice to I gotta what

it was.

It was really good too. 

Oh,

I have a philosopher, 

friend who I just love to talk Uh, he's just so brilliant. Uh,

Philosophy Center

net. I call him much as I can.

He's cool, Phil. And, um,

he's a Loretta. The difference between a healthy brain and a, you know, neurotic anxious person is that for a healthy brain, you know, two plus two equals four. yeah, two plus two, four. he's like, if for a neurotic, you know, for an anxious person, for like irritated person, two plus two equals four. And that's a problem.

[01:05:00] Markus: Fantastic. I like that 

[01:05:03] Loretta: just, let 2 plus 2 equal 4. whatever's happening is what's just physics. okay. There's clouds.

the launch is

[01:05:16] Markus: By the way, speaking of clouds,

speaking of clouds, this is, that's, uh, already

at at some point, uh, I read a fantastic observation that two plus two equals four. You're right. And one and one equals two. You're right, but not always. And for example, if you take two clouds and put them together, it's still just one cloud.

[01:05:40] Loretta: Ha! 2 plus, 1 plus 1 equals 

[01:05:43] Markus: Exactly. So it's, it's, it's, it's, the, the reference we're talking about. So, and I think this is a profoundly interesting observation to make that there is moments where two, one and one does not equal two. Um, it's always the matter and, the reference you're talking about. And so this keeps maybe even the The most frustrated or irritated person you were talking about also may be a little bit sane because it gives gives us opportunity for a way out for an alternative sometimes when we're stuck in something because The world is so manifold, um, as we know, and if you're stuck in one problem, look left and right, maybe you're, you have an observation, uh, a solution right next Yeah, this, this went a little beyond what you were trying to say now with, if you're a piece of inspiration, 

I 

[01:06:44] Loretta: No

worries.

[01:06:47] Markus: All right, Loretta, um, thank you so much for taking the The time that was truly inspiring, inspiring because it's something, uh, it's now episode

118, 118 and this is something that no one has ever talked about. Could be concerning, but also for you, it's, it's uplifting because thank you for letting me into your world, a profoundly new idea that is, after I heard you talk about it, I deem it is profoundly important and necessary.

So thank you for sharing that with us on that show.

 And that, my friends, brings us to the end of today's episode of the Space Cafe Podcast. You know, talking with Loretta really makes you think, well, at least it make, made me think, while we are all caught up in the rush of holiday shopping and hunting for the perfect gifts and maybe the most valuable thing we can share isn't sitting on any shelf.

Here's a thought. Why not gift this very episode to someone who loves asking the big questions just as you do? In a world where we're drowning in stuff but starving for substance, sharing ideas like these, who knows about who we want to be as a spacefaring civilization, how we might do better up there than we sometimes do down here.

That's the kind of present that keeps on giving. Whether you're listening to this during your commute or your workout or just taking a moment to ponder our cosmic future, thank you for being part of this conversation. And hey, if you're enjoying our journey through space and time together, do not forget to leave us a rating or review or two on your favorite podcast platform.

It helps other curious minds find their way to these conversations. Until our next Cosmic Chat, keep looking up, my friends, and thinking deep. This is Markus, signing off from the Space Cafe Podcast. Bye bye