Hidden in Plain Sight - Out of Shanghai, Leading Space Photographer Reveals Earth's Hidden Space Revolution

Based in Shanghai for the past decade, Slovenian photographer Matjaž Tančič has uncovered a hidden space revolution happening far from the spotlight. Through his 'Mars on Earth' project, he documents remarkable space innovations emerging in the world's most unexpected places.

Starting with candid insights into modern-day China, Tančič reveals how space ambitions and breakthrough technologies are flourishing beyond traditional aerospace centers.

Highlights
Life in Modern China [00:03:01 - 00:19:21]

• [00:04:21] China's digital ecosystem and social surveillance
• [00:11:59] Life and community in Shanghai's French Concession
• [00:17:11] Navigating language and culture
• [00:19:21] Living costs and lifestyle contrasts

Society & Development [00:20:51 - 00:34:12]

• [00:20:51] Professional landscape and opportunities
• [00:24:21] Urban-rural development dynamics
• [00:31:25] Education and technology priorities

The Mars on Earth Project [00:34:52 - 00:51:43]

• [00:34:52] Origins of the project in Gobi Desert
• [00:40:32] Documentation of global space initiatives
• [00:46:15] Meeting with Mongolia's first cosmonaut
• [00:49:05] Photographing space innovation worldwide

Future of Space Exploration [00:51:43 - 01:21:31]

• [00:51:43] Discussion of first Mars landing possibilities
• [01:10:25] 3D photography in space documentation
• [01:15:16] Collaboration with innovative space companies
• [01:17:08] Personal aspirations for space travel
• [01:20:00] Final thoughts on inclusive space exploration

Key Topics Discussed
Untraditional Space Innovation

• Mongolian engineers developing Mars rovers inspired by camels
• Slovenian company Duol creating inflatable habitats for NASA
• Space doctor Dr. Susan Jewel's VR medical training system
• Armenian watchmaker crafting timepieces for Mars time
• Barbara Belvisi's Interstellar Lab creating closed-loop habitat systems
• ALE's artificial shooting star technology in Tokyo
• South Africa's growing space sector with 200+ startups
• The Square Kilometre Array (SKA) radio telescope project
• Chinese space program developments

Quote

• "New planet is going to be Tabula Rasa... we can do there whatever we want and we can make it right."

Links & References

• Interstellar Lab
• ALE (Artificial Shooting Stars)
• Square Kilometre Array Project
• Duol Space Habitats

Photography & Visual Elements

• Featured photo: Astronaut on camel in Mongolian desert [00:52:54]
• Biopod installation in Paris [01:13:14]
• Mars simulation base in Gobi Desert [00:52:09]
• Various space technology prototypes

You can find us on Spotify and Apple Podcast!

Please visit us at SpaceWatch.Global, subscribe to our newsletters. Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter!

Transcript

SCP_120_Matjau_Tancic

[00:00:00] Matjaz: these villages that I've seen, I mean, everybody, not maybe every grandpa, but in every family, they have iPhone and 5G, but the traditions that they, live by and how it looks, it definitely recalls more, a previous century.

In some places, I still see people living in this. special caves. Um, they're not cavemen. it was a way to save on buildings that you just, you dig a hole. So you want to extend apartment, you dig another room. 

[00:00:39] Markus: Hello everyone, this is the Space Cafe Podcast and I'm Markus. It started with an innocent look, well, maybe not so innocent, but more surreal looking photograph I came across. A photograph depicting an astronaut atop a camel in the middle of the Mongolian desert. And that picture sparked a discovery, a journey for me, one that led me to uncover a vibrant and largely seen That's the largely unseen side of space exploration.

And in this episode, my friends, you will discover how space enthusiasts and innovators and nerds and experts alike from some of the most unexpected corners on this planet, far from the usual places you all know, and we all know, the ones in the limelight of the media interest. Um, but the other ones.

They're also solving challenges that even the big players are grappling with. And the one who uncovered all this and brought me into his world is space photographer Matjaž Tantić from Slovenia.

He's been living in Shanghai for 10 years now, and he's one of Asia's leading space photographers. Through his Mars on Earth project, Mattias has revealed a hidden ecosystem of creativity, so to say. Watchmakers crafting Martian timepieces, beautifully handcrafted. Engineers inspired by the endurance of desert camels, and much, much more.

Today, we will. So, explore how the next big breakthroughs in space exploration might well come from places like a workshop in Mongolia, or Slovenia, or wherever on this planet. Matjaž, it's an honor to have you in the show. And without further ado, let's dive right into it. Let's go.

Yeah, I'm

[00:02:42] Matjaz: I hope it's recording.

[00:02:44] Markus: Matthias, we got that out of the way. Took us a while.

[00:02:47] Matjaz: Yes, no comment is China.

[00:02:50] Markus: So tell me, it took us quite a while now to get online, to get things mode. Is this, the Chinese what is causing those issues?

[00:03:03] Matjaz: Yeah, it's true. Um, the thing in China is there are some apps, some websites, there are certain things that they are blocked. So you never know, you know, you come up with a new tool as this recording, it's always a guess. It's going to work. It's not going to work. Then you have, uh, ways to, let's say, go around this wall, which.

We shouldn't be talking about, and we won't, but it also sometimes works more, uh, reliable than the others. So it's basically problem solving on every stage. You know, it's like the, the thing is that China has their own tools, which are. All inspired by the tools we are using, usually even a little bit improved.

But then, you know, I would have to be teaching you how to use them and what would be best. And that could maybe take us even longer than 45 minutes that we needed this time.

[00:04:02] Markus: What do you mean improved? Is there like a better version of WhatsApp or

[00:04:08] Matjaz: For sure. Yeah. I mean, Maybe you heard about WeChat. WeChat, it's the tool that connects and WhatsApp, Uber, TikTok, news, paying all the bills, booking trains. So it's one app there that rules them all, all the payment. So even if you see, it's not a usual site, but if you see, uh, let's say a homeless on the, on the street, they also will have just a QR code because there is no cash used in China.

Basically I use it maybe the first year or two when I was visiting China, but then it's just like a WeChat, WeChat, or the other option it's Alipay. from Alibaba. And again, also Alipay, it's not so much for chatting, but again, you have, uh, all the conveniences of ordering food, taxis, booking planes, hotels, everything in one single app.

[00:05:18] Markus: mean like over here in Europe and in different places in the world, there is privacy concerns. Is this an issue? What do you, what do you people think about this concentration of private data? On such an app.

[00:05:36] Matjaz: Um, so I would dare to claim that China, it's, uh, probably the safest country in the world when it comes to crime and so on. So this is something that The citizens of China usually, you know, take, you know, we give some privacy away, you know, being monitored by cameras and apps, et cetera. But on the other side, You know, kids can go at midnight, walk anywhere in China without being accompanied by, you know, uh, parents or a drunk person or, uh, you know, or a bunch of girls in short outfits.

They can go anywhere, anytime. Just uh, it was one week also ago, I just took a photo. There was a, like, nice racing bike. And he was tied to a pole with a shoelace. I don't know why they needed a shoelace, uh, you know, instead of, uh, I don't know how, how thick of a chain that he would use in Europe and would still disappear.

Uh, but yeah, it was tied with a shoelace. So, you know, I keep my doors, front doors open, no matter which city I go. Um, so, you know, there are pluses and minuses.

[00:07:00] Markus: Very interesting. Why do you think is that? Is that because there is surveillance everywhere and so crime makes no sense because there is no dark back alley where I could hide to commit a 

crime? 

[00:07:16] Matjaz: I think you cannot hide and in the long term, it doesn't pay, you know, they get you once and you can, you know, lose the benefits of, you know, using the public transport, you know, maybe we're talking about smaller crime and if we connect to this social credit that people talk so much about it. There is not, I, I don't think it exists.

It was like a pilot project. Um, but there is maybe un retail social credit, right? So the thing is, if you're going to do crime as a local citizen in China, you, as I said, you will have problems getting a passport. You will have problems booking an airplane, train, using Metro, uh, not even mentioning getting a loan.

Or opening a bank account, uh, and same goes, uh, for foreigners, you know, you start losing privileges. And then it's like, what's the point then, you know, how can you live if you cannot use all of these, uh, all of these things, basically, emilities, yeah. So they are just, they're very practical people. That's it.

Plus, you know, when I work in a, from my laptop in a bar. I leave my laptop on the table when I go on a toilet and phone. Simply everyone else also has better phone and laptop than me. So there is just no sense they would take it. You know, their Louis Vuitton shoes, they're worth more than my phone on the table.

So, and it's same, same with you, you know, you walk around, you see phones everywhere, you see the packages of delivery in front of the door. Maybe even with a logo, maybe PS5, whatever, but you're just like, you know, it's going to stay there. This is how it goes. You know, um, it's, it's a nice thing. And similar things I noticed, you know, in Japan, uh, when, when I was shocked, when I saw there was, um, how do you call it?

Um, someone was emptying the house, so they put all the stuff for trash, but nobody took it. You know, it's a lucrative business. In United States, to take a fancy couch or rack, you clean it and resell it. In Europe, it's the biggest hobby of so many collectors or students. In Tokyo, there was like, there were, you know, brand new, uh, golf clubs.

There were so many cool furniture, but nobody even touched it. Uh, I was tempted, but you know, I was there with the hand luggage flying back next day. So what could I do with, uh, you know, pool clubs, you know, uh, golf clubs.

[00:09:55] Markus: What, um, Matthias, is this all related to the government and surveillance and whatnot? Or is there also a different mindset in people.

[00:10:11] Matjaz: I mean, we talk, if you're generalizing about Asia, I would say, you know, it's, uh, just a mindset, you know, how people were brought up. Um, I guess also because it's very family orientated. I mean, there are different cells, right? The first cell, it's your family, then it's your building, then it's your community, then it's your district, then it's your city.

Then it's your county. So you're being, you have to obey in every one of them within your family, with your certain set of rules, within the building with a certain set of rules, within compound with a certain set of rules. So there is some micro management and government done so that, you know, the government doesn't have to do it even, you know, and again, this brings also benefits, you know, nobody would be starving basically because your family would take care of you.

If not this, it's going to be your building. If not this, it's going to be again, the compound. So it's sort of a secure safety valve for many things. It's a network, yeah. And probably also has to do something, let's say with You know, with the religion, with either Confucianism or, you know, in Japan, Taoism, Daoism and so on.

[00:11:40] Markus: So you're, um, you're currently in Shanghai.

And so I'm picturing Shanghai as this Insanely huge metropolis, um, 20 million people, 25 million

people. So I'm, from my perspective as a Westerner, as a European citizen, I'm picturing anonymity. I'm picturing skyscrapers. Wherever you look, um, and again, anonymity.

So now I'd, I'd be super curious to find out how that works. What you just mentioned that being self contained into a larger community, how does this work for you? What is your everyday for you? Like, is there something like anonymity, like loneliness, or are you contained somewhere?

[00:12:45] Matjaz: So I, yeah, there is lots of skyscrapers, um, but I always lived, uh, which is called the former French concession, uh, which is, uh, A little bit more European. You have these old villas from the time of the French occupying and British and the other, um, and Americans, Brits, Russians, and so on. So you have Let's say three story buildings, lots of trees, lots of coffee shops, uh, vintage stores, um, bagel shops.

So it's like very, let's say, gentrified, and pleasant place to, to be. And it's also the area where the foreign ideas and shops mix with the local people, the old Shanghais living in these houses. Um, so as I mentioned, I just moved. I was living in a ground floor before. And you always meet with the neighbors, you know, there were some elderly chaffee ladies, you meet outside when you are, uh, putting your clothes to dry, you know, in front of your house in a small alley.

Uh, so you have a little chat, uh, so everyone knows what's happening a little bit, you know, it's the alleyway, it's, uh, what, three meter wide. And when you enter it, you pass the same neighbors, you know, some of them, they are cooking outside Uh, you know, it is the city of the future, but there are some houses that would still have maybe a toilet together or a sink outside.

So there is a blend of different. realities and modernities, let's say. Um, and now I moved to just one block down, like two minutes walking. And it's a bit more, probably 20 years, uh, uh, more, uh, younger building. So it's four floors, nice brick building, but at the gate you have a You have, um, how to say, security guard,

which checks who goes in.

I mean, he's 

there 

[00:14:53] Markus: it's like a, a gated community. 

[00:14:55] Matjaz: sort of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also then just in front, then my elites, the second one to the right when you enter, and there's usually a guy. retired guy sitting there on a chair, who is also employed as, you know, checking what's happening.

[00:15:11] Markus: Mm mm-Hmm

[00:15:12] Matjaz: it's very common in Beijing, where I used to live, you know, you always kept this old lady sitting on the streets with a red band over the hand, and they were the local eyes and ears, you know, which, you know, Again, it's exactly the same as what we talked about before.

Safety, yes, but also don't do something stupid. Um, you know, I don't know, with two guys carrying a rock and their legs sticking out, you know, you don't do that. You're going to be seen. So no, no body disposal or something, uh, you know, that you see in the movies. Um, so it is micro community, which where, you know, you say hi to, to neighbors, um, but this is the French concession, you know, even if I go to shop or to a restaurant, to a club, I will meet friends, uh, but as you know, the second I go 10 blocks to the south, north, east, or west, or across the river to Pudong, the modern area, I don't know Anyone, absolutely no one, you know, and this goes on and on.

And you, you are, you can be aware of how big the city is when you sit on a high speed train, which goes 300. 20 kilometers per hour and you start driving and it doesn't finish, you know, for maybe an hour, you know, it just blends into Suzhou, Hangzhou, uh, Nanjing, uh, you know, Ningbo, sorry, and so on. So it's, um, yeah, it's a fascinating, this scale.

[00:16:47] Markus: Do you speak? Uh, do you speak Chinese now? Chinese, Mandarin?

[00:16:50] Matjaz: Uh, I 

[00:16:51] Markus: yeah.

[00:16:52] Matjaz: speak a little bit Mandarin, Whatever I know, I, I know from like Beijing accent. So now when I I'm in Shanghai, I don't understand a single thing, but, uh, because of the modernity, everyone has the app to translate. So I haven't seen this traveling around the world and I travel a lot, but here, every time they see you, they would just, you know, say it in the phone and then give it to you either text or the sound.

So everybody's, everybody is using translation apps. Or, you know, they want to chat with you, they would call their nephew, friend, ex who speaks English and put it on the phone. So they're very, very willing to communicate. It's not like some somewhere in the East Europe or France that if you don't speak the language, they're going to be just like, just get out of here.

You know, here, you know, they always. Super happy to see you. They want to communicate. They want to chat. They want to connect. And just last time, I figured out they have 4, 500 contacts on WeChat. I have no idea how this happened. And it's not like, you know, Instagram or, or, um, X, where you just follow someone that doesn't know you.

Here, it had to be. Most of the time it has to be like physical to scan your QR code to add you. So people are very, very open and communicative. Contrary to popular belief that they are a closed society, you know, they mind themselves, they're rude. That's definitely not the case.

[00:18:40] Markus: Like, um, to, to give me a comparison so I can assess, um, the expenses as compared to expenses over here in Europe. So how much do you spend, for example, for a dinner? How much do you spend for a rent for a hundred square meter apartment? So what is, what is life like?

[00:19:02] Matjaz: It really, really, really, really, really depends. You can have a dinner easily for three, four, Dollars or euros. If you, you know, share apartment in a little bit outside of town, it can be, probably you can get something for. 200, 300, 350. I'm, I'm saying a bit further out, right? But then the dinner, they go, you know, to 800 per meal in ultra violet.

Uh, and apartments can also easily go, you know, to four or five, 6, 000 to have a duplex in a new building. Um, so that's the case. Um, I mean, that's the funny part. You know, you go for dinner, you would, dinner, you would about, you know, with maybe a beer or two, you would spend. About 15 euros, but then, you know, you go to, um, to have a cocktail and you would pay, you know, the same amount, you know, so the Western things, they tend to be quite expensive, but the local things are, you know, very cheap.

So local beer in a shop, one euro, you go to, um, you know, a craft brewery, you can pay for three deciliter beer, 12 euros easily, not easily, but it happens. But easily six, seven euros for a beer, a craft beer. Um,

[00:20:32] Markus: is, what's the, like, in Shanghai, like, um, your average income that you would compare, or from a job description, compare to Western incomes? So what, how much do people, people make?

[00:20:51] Matjaz: hard question. Very hard, especially as a freelancer and especially as doing such a, a big variety of different, um, photo shoots. Uh, the, the thing is more that why I like to work here is because there is such a big variety of different kinds of jobs, you know, so you can, one day you can be shooting, uh, let's say, outdoor wear campaign on almost 4, 000 meters high, you know, in a mountains in Shangri La.

Then the next day you would go shoot event of Porsche in a desert. Uh, then you do a, a photo story about female surfing crew in Hainan, which is the Chinese, um, Hawaii, uh, so called Hawaii. So it's a tropical island with sandy beaches and waves. Um, and then you do, you know, a story. About bullfighting in mountains of Guizhou where bull fights each other and people live like they lived a hundred years ago in a very interesting communities with like wooden houses and they have an amazing tower, wooden towers where Every night, um, villagers meet to chat, to play music, to watch a movie together on LED screen.

And on the side, they have this bull that they wash their feet. And when he dies, they bury him like a king in a tomb and have three day party. So that's China. You know, you, you can go from Himalaya to desert to tropical jungle to futuristic city and photograph, you know, from, um, Lewis Hamilton, uh, Cindy Crawford one day and the next day coal miners or, you know, villagers, um, planting blueberries or, you know, uh, that's the biggest value for me.

Um, besides,

[00:23:10] Markus: Hmm. It sounds like, um, the bandwidth of possibilities and, and life is wider than over here in Europe. So is, is it valid to compare or to say that. There are places in China that are in comparison to Europe, um, or the United States, like way back in history, like, for example, like, I don't know, decades or a hundred years back, but at the same time you have those mega cities that are way beyond That is our most modern cities, like that you have places that go back to the 1900s.

And then at the same time you have places that go up to the 22nd century. Is that valid to say?

[00:24:02] Matjaz: uh, hundred percent, yeah, you know, you go to Shenzhen, I would dare to say. Okay, to be conservative, I will say 85 percent of the cars on the streets are electric and vans and buses and trucks and the delivery. You see they have drone delivery for the packages, um, and so on. So, you know, the most modern, uh, the most modern, uh, metro, which is clean, uh, when you are in a hotel and you order food.

There is a tiny robot that delivers to you to the 17th floor, uh, because at the reception, the delivery guy just puts the room number, the little hatch open, it puts the food inside, then the robot drives to the elevator, calls the elevator, drives with the elevator, and then, uh, he rolls to your door, rings a bell by calling the phone in your room.

And then it opens, you take out and then goes back to the elevator and goes, wait, and this, it's not one for PR, I've seen in many hotels across China this, even, you know, three star hotels. Um, so this is on one side. And on the other side, yeah, as I mentioned, these villages that I've seen, I mean, everybody, not maybe every grandpa, but in every family, they have iPhone and 5G, uh, but the traditions that they, you know, live by and how it looks, it definitely recalls more, you know, a previous century.

In some places, you know, I still see people living in this. special caves. Um, they're not cavemen. Let's don't go so, you know, so far, but it just, it was a way to save on buildings that you just, you dig a hole. In front of this, I don't know what, what, what kind of ground it was. So you, you could have a very intricate, it's same as in Australia, right?

In Australia, I also have, or in Turkey, you also have people living in the caves.

So you just cave, you just,

you want to extend apartment, you dig another room. But in front, up front, you have a big glass. window and a door and a courtyard and so on. So some people still live there. I would love to basically see even more because for us it looks photogenic and romantic, but on the other side, you know, people are aware of life standards all around the world.

So the kid who grew up there, he was, he would be like, no man, um, I'm not going to be farming, uh, to earn 12 per month. I want to go. You know, even if it's an assembly factory where I can earn at least 600 a month, and then I'm not gonna live in a cave. How can I get a girlfriend to marry by telling her I live in a cave?

I have to tell her I have an apartment, I have a degree that would be a bonus, and I have a electric SUV. So this consumerism, it's basically driving the modernity. the young people, mostly in, I would say 90%, they would move out to cities, but the older generations, they would still, you know, live there.

They are not craving for the modernities. They have, you know, their gang to play cards. They, they have their, uh, birds in the cages and they meet with other grandpas with birds in the cages and they talk about, they fly kites, they grow veggies. They have, you know, good life, especially if the kids, you know, send back money and come visit them more than twice a year, which is already quite a lot, uh, in this busy pace.

It's complex. I mean, I could talk for hours and hours and still would not be able to shine the light on this complex society, but you know, at least I can share some. And, you know, talking about these modernities, it's also, you know, how we It's, uh, because of the space program that I photographed in China, sort of, um, and that was, you know, one day in the news, I, I saw that they are building a Mars simulation base in Gobi desert.

Again, we, we are talking, you know, about Gobi, that it's always fascinating to go there. Um, and, um, And yeah, and then I found out about the like open day of this place and I flew there with a journalist friend, um, driving through the desert, passing the camels and there it was, you know, uh, a big structure that looks like, you know, from a sci fi movie, uh, with, uh, electric rower, um, speeding around lifting lots and lots of sand.

Uh, there were some, you know, solar panels and so on. So it was just like. Mind blowing and as you could say, only in China, you know, you, you, you would go passing these small villages in Gobi Desert and then, um, seeing something like that. But 

then, um, 

[00:29:54] Markus: a time travel.

[00:29:55] Matjaz: completely, yeah. Um, and, um, but what I noticed quite fast, it was that this, uh, base, it doesn't have a big scientific value or none, but it's, it's more built for education purposes.

Uh, similar as, you know, pretty new, um, planetarium in Shanghai, which is the biggest in the world, you know, it's, uh, to educate people, to get them interested in science. Um, and yeah, in this smart simulation base, you know, you could see, um, how they, how you would grow food with hydroponics, how you would take care of recycling the waste, how you would, um, uh, get the energy and so on and so on.

So all the basic modules that we need for the survival, which of course you learn more by seeing than, you know, reading about it and it's abstract and you get distracted by phones. Uh, you know, even I was like a small kid running around exploring this place, you know, it was a very fascinating place.

[00:31:06] Markus: Why do you think or how is People's interest in education in China, in those things, is education a tedious thing you would want to avoid,

[00:31:23] Matjaz: You,

[00:31:24] Markus: or is it something where, like, children, people go proactively toward?

[00:31:30] Matjaz: now you opened another huge topic, um, that I usually like to mention because it's so fascinating. So, you know, I come from Slovenia, developed European country where then, you know, when I was growing up in, let's say, uh, early eighties, it was like, you know, go to school get college, you will get a job, period.

But these things changed, you know, now with a college or two college degrees or PhD, you're still going to be, you know, probably influencer because nobody will employ you and you can work as a contract on a contract. Um, yeah, basically. Uh, and what I want to say in Slovenia, you usually picked what's the most practical and easy to finish.

So it was economy. If you were a bit more ambitious, you go low, and then instead of studying four years, you usually start, study for six years just to extend these student benefits of working with less tax and, uh, food, um, like coupons that it was cheaper to eat outside and so on. China, it's completely different.

Kids here, they don't go study what's the easiest and the most practical, but what's the best possible they can afford financial and with their, you know, grades. So if they want to be, become, let's say, architects, first, they're going to look in, in the States. I'm not sure if, um, Yale and Harvard, they have architecture, but let's say they would definitely, they would have a list of best universities they would try first.

Yale, Harvard. If this is not possible, it's going to be Oxford, Cambridge. If this not, it's going to be France.

If not that, maybe what's, maybe it's Canada. And then go down, down, down, down, even to, you know, study architecture in Slovenia because we have a good, 

uh, university for architecture in English language.

So they would definitely go by on the list and try to get as best education as possible. And this is what It's going to really prove beneficial in this country

[00:33:53] Markus: Mm. Mm.

[00:33:54] Matjaz: going to have best educated people in every field imaginable. Um, you know, I, I mean, in Beijing, in their language university, um, I'm not, I'm 99, 95 percent sure my number is correct, but they learn, they teach 190 languages.

You know, they, they, I don't even know that there's so many exist, you know, they are, they don't, I know there must be already talking about some tribal languages or dialects, but they really, uh, value knowledge as number one priority.

[00:34:33] Markus: Mm hmm. 

[00:34:34] Matjaz: And you can see this, you know, I mean, Musk was dreaming about this, uh, was it Musk?

No, it was, uh, Branson with his train in the vacuum, Hyperloop. Noah, 

[00:34:47] Markus: that was, that was Musk, that was the Hyperloop.

[00:34:51] Matjaz: Is the train? No, it, 

[00:34:52] Markus: Yes. Yes. But, 

[00:34:54] Matjaz: Virgin Galactic? They 

[00:34:56] Markus: Now Virgin Galactic is, is, um, is Branson.

[00:35:00] Matjaz: Yeah, but they, anyway, one of these two rich guys, uh, they tried to do this train that goes, you know, 600, 800 kilometers per hour. It goes in vacuum and, you know, it would, uh, be faster than plane almost, you know? Um, in China, you know, they are already testing on a way larger scale this, uh, you know, they. are not afraid of, you know, investing money into all these technologies and trying to catch up, uh, with basically catch up and overtaking everything what's possible.

Uh, and you can see that the best example, it's space.

[00:35:40] Markus: Yes.

[00:35:40] Matjaz: You know, uh, I mean, oh, there was a good, very good, um, quote by Mao, but I forgot. It's something like that they cannot even send a potato in the space when Russians and Americans, they were sending, uh, um, satellites. And that was, you know, in the sixties.

And now look at them, they have the most modern and the second space station.

[00:36:07] Markus: Yes.

[00:36:08] Matjaz: When one is, you know, probably going to get decommissioned, they're going to be the only one with a space station,

landed on the dark side of the moon and probably many more things that we don't even know that they are developing, you know, um, also, you know, space tourism, 

um, and I guess, yeah, they will, you know, overtake the West.

One thing is because they have complete support from the government.

[00:36:35] Markus: Mm.

[00:36:36] Matjaz: Um, then also with this comes, you know, a big market to 1. 5 billion. So if you have space tourism, you have enough people who will, you know, wanted to do it and so on and so on. You know, it's like the knowledge, it's what,

[00:36:56] Markus: Yeah. Tell me, Matthias, how, how much do you know about the Chinese space Program, Space Industry, because there's not like too much information that spills over to the rest of the world. I'm just wondering, I read today that they're sort of gearing up for some sort of a space shuttle, Dream Chaser type spacecraft that they're testing.

Then of course we have the space station and space tourism that you're mentioning. So what else is there that? You came across.

[00:37:30] Matjaz: I mean, there are a couple of, uh, very good blogs and websites, um, about, you by foreign journalists doing, uh, deep dives in the Chinese space. So everything what's most up to date, it can be, uh, read there.

[00:37:48] Markus: Yes, 

[00:37:49] Matjaz: Uh, I can see more what's in, you know, let's say every day, let's say news, um, or surrounding. And what they notice it's pride in space, which, you know, it was the same thing, uh, in Russia and states, you know, with all the TV shows and posters and, um, the whole race was actually just about national pride and they are also speeding up and, um, also with this, they're getting on the same level as what we had.

So there is not a single shopping center around the country that you won't have some. space related installation, illustration, um, you know, also in the time of Olympics or big brands using, um, you know, some space related topics, building, as I mentioned before, the biggest, um, planetarium in the world. And, you know, and I also went to see the rocket launch, uh, in Hainan again, where you have the surfers, you also have the rocket launch.

I went to see the time when they were sending the second part of the Taihu, um, space station

and it's sandy beach. You're standing under the palm tree. If you have, if you booked early enough, you can be in, uh, I think it's, I think it's Kempinski or,

[00:39:25] Markus: hmm. Mm

[00:39:26] Matjaz: or one of these big hotels, you can see it from, from the hotel, your hotel balcony.

And you have hundreds and hundreds of people, I would say thousands of people watching. And when I was there, there was even orchestra, uh, sycophonic orchestra, uh, playing their classical music when the rocket went up. So it was like a true spectacle, you know, first you, you listen to this dramatic music.

And then, uh, then you see, you know, the Nazi, I mean, the first day I, you see the rocket and a couple of seconds after the sound comes and it just comes this wave goes through your body and moves. It's like a physical wall all the way, almost. And it's,

[00:40:12] Markus: hmm.

[00:40:13] Matjaz: it is, it is something as spectacular as seeing, uh, Eclipse.

It's something that you will remember forever. You probably saw it, the rocket launch

somewhere. And

[00:40:25] Markus: Matthias, just this is a beautiful segue into one of your main works you have done recently, and that is the Mars on Earth project. And because this is pretty much an extension, a global extension of what you just mentioned, the, the, presence of space on earth in unusual places or not so expected places, because the usual places, you know, We all know we have the Starship, and we have the Virgin Galactic, and we have the Blue Origin, and we have NASA and ESA, and, and, and whatnot. Um, but this is just the tip of the iceberg in your observation, because what you're seeing or what you try to see, what you try to find out is as to how non traditional places are thinking about space. And then you came across a pretty surprising and very vivid world, um, that engages with space. I'd love to hear more about that.

[00:41:37] Matjaz: yeah, um, so as you mentioned, everything actually started in Gobi desert, you know, it was like photographer's dream, uh, to witness this and take photos, uh, in that environment. I thought that this is going to be just, you know, one story, you know, uh, that I'm going to put in the drawer and forget about it.

But I always liked space, uh, you know, as a kid, I had a telescope, you know, watch, try to watch the stars and, uh, moon and so on. And just a couple of months after my Gobi adventure, I went to Los Angeles. Uh, I wanted to be just holidays, but then just for a joke, I Googled, uh, Mars Exploration Los Angeles.

And what surprised me, it was like, not one or two hits, but like hundreds. And I, then, and I found, you know, Mars architects, Mars farmers, Mars chefs, Mars fashion designers, Mars psychologists,

Mars, yeah, Mars, um, urban planners, uh, Mars watchmaker, and it was like, what's happening, you know, how is this possible that me, and I consider myself extremely Curious person, uh, always, you know, snooping around, especially as a photographer, that I didn't know that this exists.

So I immediately started writing emails and was like, Forget it. You know, I don't need holidays. You know, I still went for celebrity bus tour to see the house of Kubrick and so on. But I was like, okay, let back to work. And, um, and I met a bunch of very fascinating people. Uh, let's say, you know, one of the first people that I met was Dr.

Susan Jewel. She's a space doctor. Uh, what she does, let's say one of her project is she developed VR goggles, where you're going to, with the help of VR and AR, it's going to help, uh, astronauts to do operations. in space or get, um, certain skills and learn better about, uh, procedures, uh, medical procedures.

because, you know, you're going to have avatar of a, of, um, doctor telling you what to do, where to cut and so on. And what I like about this project, or at least concept of the project, um, it's that it has earth applications. You know, you would have a big floats like you have now in Europe, people are, you know.

cannot get to hospitals, they could, um, airdrop them, uh, a couple of these VR goggles and people would, could help save lives, not even mentioning in the war zones and so on. Um, so, you know, that was one of my first meetings. And then I, I met with, uh, Mr. Garo. He's like, um, he's an Armenian watchmaker. Who, by coincidence, his, uh, how do you call watch shop?

It's a pretty near, uh, JPL. So he start making watches that run on Mars time. So it, so it means that, um. The, the Sol on Mars, it's about 40 minutes longer. So he had to slow down the mechanism to make it run on, on Sol. And it's not just a joke, you know, these watches are worn by, um, scientists at NASA who are operating Mars rovers on Mars.

So they, you know, they go to sleep when there is sunrise, sunset on Mars and they go to sleep. I had two kids that were telling me to go. On the beach with kids and 10pm, you know, and there is like sunset on Mars and they get up when, when there is a sunrise on Mars so they can open the solar panels and dry prower.

So of course you could have an app for that, but you know, it's not as sexy as a nice Mars watch, 

[00:45:56] Markus: Of course. Is it an analog, analog

[00:45:59] Matjaz: an analog, analog for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, and And more I dig and more I traveled around the world, I noticed that you have similar interesting people all around the world and this can really, you know, end all around the world and the project kept evolving and it's still evolving after five years.

And the main goal of the project is, yeah, as you mentioned, to show this contrast of the space race in the sixties, where you had usually white male working for governments of Russia or states, which are basically racing, who's going to go to moon first, you know, plant the flag, do a selfie and, you know, uh, and go home and forget about it for the next, you know, 60 years.

Um, And now you have people. They will probably never get on Moon and Mars, but they are contributing smaller puzzles of the, uh, smaller pieces of the bigger puzzle. So either it's going to be growing food, either, you know, uh, or what kind of clothes you should wear or how about psychology, what kind of flight should be in the, um, um, Mars base or Moon base.

And also the fact is, we didn't know the, uh, we didn't need this for a short trip to moon and back. But when we're going to go to Mars, which is going to take us probably two years to, you know, or two years to go there and back, we're going to need to figure out, you know, how to grow some of our food, especially if you want to stay there, how we're going to recycle water and all these advancements.

And I got a sidetracked now. I wanted to say that, um. I was surprised that I noticed all around the world, anywhere I traveled, that you had some space enthusiasts and scientists. And as the best example I can give you, it's just, um, Slovenia. We are, you know, a country of 2 million people. We never had any space program and so on besides, um, Nordnung, who was, uh, Army officer interested in rocketry in the 19th century.

And it was his idea to make this geostationary, um, station, which was later seen also in Kubrick's 2001. So it's like, you know, the donut shaped, uh, station that it's rotating so fast that it creates a gravity.

[00:48:46] Markus: Gravity.

[00:48:47] Matjaz: Yeah. So it was his idea, you know, in fucking, 

[00:48:51] Markus: So that's, that's Slovenian, a Slovenian idea.

[00:48:55] Matjaz: It was, I mean, it was back in the day, it was still also Hungarian empire and so on and so on. But, uh, but yeah, it was his idea, Herman Potocnik Nordnung. And you know, we have some, but that's, you know, for the next 200 years, we had nothing basically. But back to the story now, one of, let's say the person, the, uh, the company that photographed first was Duol.

Duol, it's a company that built this inflatable structures that on earth it's used to cover, let's say a football pitch or tennis court in the winter. It's like a white inflatable structure and their technology is so good that they received funding from NASA to develop this for Mars or moon. So, and then.

And then we have, um, um, Dr. Igor Mikheyevich, who is a big specialist in medicine and especially in losing bone density and, and, uh, muscles when you are, um, in low 

gravity, 

zero gravity. And in Slovenia, they're now testing one of the free as called short, short arm human centrifuge. So, it's a centrifuge that rotates.

This rotation creates gravity, and then astronauts could do exercise on this sort of, uh, centrifuge. this would make it way faster and easier than being strapped and run for two hours every day. And again, why I like both of this invention that I'm mentioning now, they both have Earth applications. You know, you can put the structures of the wall.

in the desert, or you can put them in, um, in Greenland and grow food or, you know, put temporary housing for the people. Not to mention the, uh, not to mention the short term centrifuge. Which can be used for people who are trying to recover after an accident, you know, and they are bed bound. They could, you know, strap them to this and they could do, you know, some exercise without standing up or, you know, elderly people in retirement homes and so on.

[00:51:24] Markus: Hey, Matthias, could you take a look at a bunch of your photos? And maybe you'll tell us the stories behind those photos.

[00:51:31] Matjaz: Are you going to open them? Because I already start describing quite some of them.

[00:51:37] Markus: Sure. What, what were like the, the ones that stood out to you? Um, quite a bit. So, maybe the ones you wouldn't expect, the unusual ones.

[00:51:50] Matjaz: So the unusual one, I mean, definitely first thing that comes to my mind, it's, uh, it's my last photo I did. I was, uh, this summer I was in Mongolia where I was doing a project about reforestation because Mongolia has only 8 percent of the forests and they are trying to plant 1 billion trees till 2030, let's say.

Anyway, very interesting story, uh, spent some time in Mongolia, but like always now Uh, every day, uh, every time I travel now, I Googled Mongolia, Mars exploration.

[00:52:35] Markus: Ha ha

[00:52:35] Matjaz: Little did you know, uh, in two days after this Googling, I managed to meet their cosmonaut who went to space in 1899. I think I believe 81. So I managed to meet the only and the first first and the only Mongolian astronaut.

But what was even more interesting is that I met a group of Engineers and space enthusiasts who are trying to build a Mars simulation base in Gobi Desert. And they're called Mars V. And they also want to build a Mars rover. Which, uh, they drew, drew the inspiration from the camel, which is, you know, typical animal in Mongolia.

So, photo I took was actually an astronaut on a camel. So, you know, 

[00:53:36] Markus: love that one. 

[00:53:38] Matjaz: a photo that, you know, some people think it's ai, some people think it's, uh, from a movie set. And that's all okay. I want to people wonder, I want to people, especially, most importantly, be so intrigued by the photo, each photo of, uh, that I take that they would go read it.

Thanks. about the photo and the project. Because when you see the guy on the camel, then you can read that, you know, the spacesuit the guy is wearing, it's their design, you know, and they 3D printed the helmet and they, um, adjusted for the super high temperatures and super low temperatures in Gobi Desert.

And that the camel, it's basically, um, sort of, um, inspiration for the Mars rover that they're building because it can traverse big, vast landscapes, you know, and dunes. Plus it has enough energy stored to, you know, to do it for a long time. 

[00:54:44] Markus: That makes, we're getting, we're getting, very close to those Star Wars walkers. I

don't know, is, is this, what, what does it, was there a term for them? You know, the, the ones,

those huge 

[00:54:57] Matjaz: now I know. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I forgot, I forgot, but, but as a thing, you know, I, I don't want to take photos of guys. In a white lab coats, because people are going to get bored after the third photo they're going to see, you know? So I try to use the visual language of science fiction. This is the language that we all speak.

We all, you know, you already have references that I even forgot about it, you know, and each youngster or not youngster, they're going to have their own references from movies, either comic books or computer games, and that's going to drew their attention. attention. And then I hope they're going to read about it and learn about all these inventions and remarkable people around the world, basically.

So, you know, yeah, I mean, for this project, I've been photographing across Asia, States, Europe. I've been also to South Africa, uh, because people, a lot of time, most of the time, always would basically not connect African continent with, uh, space. or astronomy, but in only in South America, in South America, the South African Republic alone, you have more than 200, uh, space startups.

Um, and not only that, they're now building the biggest radio satellite ever built. it's, it's called SKA. Um, and it's basically one of the biggest scientific projects of all times. Because it's going to be, they're going to build 264, I hope I'm getting these names and numbers correct, please don't kill me.

Uh, but again, I'm just trying to inspire and do some more research yourself. Um, basically they're going to build 264 antennas in South Africa.

And then they're going to build 100, 000 small antennas in Australia. And then they're going to build 100, 000 small antennas in Australia. And this is going to work together as one huge radio dish.

And they want to, you know, because the bigger the distance, the bigger reception to make it, you know, in plain words. And they're going to start, you know, they're going to, um. extend these satellites then also to do some other African countries, then they're thinking even to do it into South America and just improving the reception.

Plus, what's extremely important, it's also, you know, to bring the knowledge, uh, to these countries and interest in science and interest in space and job opportunities. in space sector that was absolutely not possible before. I talk too much. Sorry. 

[00:57:57] Markus: No, It's all good. 

[00:57:58] Matjaz: a, it's such a fascinating, uh, I met so many amazing, amazing people everywhere that, yeah, I could go on for 

[00:58:07] Markus: I'm wondering, I'm wondering, um, what is going on here? Um, because sometimes on my show, I keep, um, I'm getting, Philosophical. And, um, I have, I have a hunch, maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right. That we are as humanity, that we're sort of getting ready, we're growing wings to leave this planet, um, because we're evolving into something is building up those outward force. And what you're saying, what you're describing the Mars and Earth project is sort of. pretty much underlining this, this concept that there is, it's, the world is brimming with upward motion. And would you subscribe to this? Is there, is there, yeah, is it a, um, I dunno, is it a movement? Is it, is it a readiness to once and for all, because what we did 60 years ago was sort of baby steps was to demonstrate, yes. We could technically, technically do it, but this was just expedition. But now we're getting ready for, or to go beyond the expedition type space travel. We're going in a way where things become commercial. We're, um, we're getting ready to stay. Like, like you left Slovenia, you went to China to perhaps stay for good. Now, why not go to. Into orbit, to the moon, to Mars, to Venus, to whatever place to stay for good. Is this the moment in history? I don't know. Feels like it.

[01:00:14] Matjaz: I mean, it's definitely exciting, exciting time, um, in the space exploration. And it just, the, the main thing is, Even, you know, every time you ask any one of these scientists, when are we going to go in Mars? The answer is always in 10 years, no matter if you ask in the 60s or 80s or 90s. So it's also now it's in 10 years, but it doesn't matter if we, if we're going to get there or not, but just to have.

a clear goal and inspiration. This is what basically, um, drew the progress of humanity, right? It's like Galileo Galilei once said something I forgot a little bit, but it's like all, all the truths are easy to understand when they are discovered. The main point is to discover them first, you know? And it's same when people ask, why do we need to go to Mars?

You don't really have enough problems and things to discover on earth. Yes, but there are infinite, uh, like unlimited new things to discover there, which we don't even know that we need to know at the moment, you know, and it can maybe open so many new opportunities for humanity, you know, I mean, people will be, we are not like trees, we, we don't have, you know, we can move and we decide to move since, uh, beginning of humankind, you know, that curiosity and advancement.

Got us to climb off the tree, you know, cross the ocean to discover, you know, um, the new continents. think what would be just important would that we don't screw up the new things that we discover, you know, it doesn't seem that we're learning much from the past, but that's why, you know, you were before surprised when I mentioned, you know, they are space lawyers and space psychologists and space, uh, urban planners.

You know, new planet, it's going to be Tabula Rasa, you know, we can, we can do there whatever we want and we can make it right, which is a very hopeful, uh, you know, thought. And I think this is also the beautiful thing. You know, we can dream about being more equal. And also this project is trying to show, you know, at least some hope for the, you know, improving earth and getting more equal opportunities, no matter, you know, what color were you born, which continent were you born, what, uh, pronoun were you born, you know, uh, we all have opportunity to be part of this.

New and I mean, not say last, but it's the new frontier. I'm sure when we're going to get to Mars, we're going to find another one and another one and another one.

[01:03:13] Markus: As a photographer, what's the, what's the story you would tell about space if you were to go into space? Because I could, I could imagine that it's, uh, space is pretty tricky, a tricky subject to photograph because it's so vast. So it's, it's kind of space photos quickly get boring

because they all look the same.

And so it's kind of, so. What would your approach towards space storytelling be?

[01:03:46] Matjaz: Uh, would be the same approach as, uh, with the, with the photos that I'm doing now, you know, I try to tell this story through people because much easier for us, you know, to relay and have a sympathy or interest in human being. Then to, uh, you know, a rock or piece of scientific equipment. So, you know, it would be amazing for me to, you know, let's say be part of the first crew to Mars and, uh, capture the emotions, you know, from the excitement to fear, to, you know, doubts, uh, love maybe, you know, so that would be, I think, especially in such a long and.

Stressful, dangerous, uh, trip and also pioneer trip. There would be no lack of emotions, you know, and this is what I would try to capture. And then of course, you know, maybe pair them with some, martian landscapes, you know, which were never photographed as good, uh, as you know, or high def, uh, as before. So I'm sure it would be infinite.

amount of inspiration.

[01:05:01] Markus: Those rover images from Mars, they are pretty fascinating because there are very high, uh, there are lots of high res footage, um, and images out there already. So it's, it's mind blowing to see those photos and how close, how close this place is. Like technically it's pretty far away, but it's like you standing out there at the same time, knowing that this is a wildly deadly place still, that needs to be made ready for, for our arrival. But at the same time, there's this beauty of it being a virgin place. And I think this is one of the, one of the main challenges we have to grapple with. And that is how to not export our human issues and human, whatever, however we're treating this planet out there 

in that new world. 

[01:06:05] Matjaz: I mean, that's, I guess, the topic of many TV shows, you know, about space. You know, you always have two teams. You have a team of scientists who they want to preserve it as it is. And then you have always the evil team of, uh, capitalists, you know, mining company and, you know, Then maybe scientists fall in love with the bad guy, etc.

So, but as I said, I think it's going to be hard to find all the solutions, but I hope at least some sustainability can be implemented.

[01:06:37] Markus: Tell me about, Matthias, tell me about, um, photo, um, technology. And I think there's something, um, is, is there something you were experimenting with, with 3D photography and, and, and space? So could you talk to this and how this could be relevant?

[01:06:56] Matjaz: Um, in the past I was shooting a lot in 3D technique. That's true. I did, uh, even two photo books, uh, which were portrait based in 3D technique. I did tough, you know, a couple of. ads and magazines and so on. So I was quite a big fan of 3D, but, but I always wanted 3D to be actually used to add something to the story.

And what's interesting, I mean, that you bringing up this topic, it's that I keep having in mind that they have to, uh, add some 3D imaging also to my Mars project. Uh, people would say, why? The fact is that, especially when you have some, um, photographs of the landscape, they were shot in 3D. So you can see the relief of the craters, let's say.

So there is a 3D technology used in the maps of Mars and so on and so on. So I definitely would like to use, uh, some of 3D photos, um, also in this series. And especially because Up till now, I already had, you know, uh, exhibitions of my Mars project all around the world from Singapore to, um, Sweden, Slovenia, China, France.

And every time I, I exhibit, I want to push. Also the view, viewers experience to a higher level. Uh, so, you know, I don't want that to just same size prints, people go and, you know, maybe get bored. I want to always to adjust. The project to the space, you know, so last, uh, my big exhibition I had in Shanghai, it already, the building looked a little bit like a spaceship.

It had three circular, circular spaces with a little H room in the middle that looked like a little space garden. So, you know, I discussed with the gallery, um, owners and we put, uh, orange sand there and we planted a flag of Mars, uh, right in the middle of the sand. Um, I can talk about this Flag of Mars a bit later, but, and then, you know, in one room we, we covered the floor with a carpet, with a drone photo of this Mars simulation base.

And so on and so on. So, you know, I would love to, as I said, also use 3D technology where you have to put either VR goggles or a bit more traditional blue red, uh, stereo glasses, um, because it gives you another dimension and it always surprises you, um, and brings you, you know, a bit closer to reality. to the either person in the photo or the objects, because, you know, they stand out and you can really take time and look what would be, let's say, on a researcher desks in a laboratory and so on.

[01:10:06] Markus: Who will

be, Yeah. Yeah. Um, who will be the first, um, to set foot on Mars or on a different celestial body? Um, in the future? Who will be, is it the Chinese, the Americans? Europeans. The Russians? Who will it be?

[01:10:27] Matjaz: uh, if I had to put bets at the moment, hmm, I would, maybe Chinese, maybe Chinese could be the first. Um, I guess not Russians, but let's see. But, um, hmm, yeah, I think the Chinese progress. Um, and you know, being more, how to say, with more one goal and one organization instead of having NASA, working with ESA, working with SpaceX, working with, uh, working with, um, Blue Origin and so on and Boeing.

I think this slows down lots of progress, lots of time.

Um, so if you ask me in 2024, I would say, uh, China, but, uh, uh, let's see, I, I mean, my bigger question is, you know, when, you know, so always when I photograph special, yeah, I know. So always when I shoot this project and I shoot some, you know, young engineers and scientists.

I photographed them in South African Republic or, you know, in the Mars rover competition in the States. Um, you know, or in India, I'm, I'm more curious, are these the people who are going to be standing on Mars? You know, I take lots of portraits of, you know, older people. Uh, who are, you know, either working with architecture or medicine.

I know they will not be, but I'm curious if the people I'm always, you know, playing with a thought, will I able to photograph the first person who's going to stand on Mars? So this is, let's say my. Small personal quest, uh, as part of this project is to find this, at least one from the first crew that it's going to be on Mars.

[01:12:31] Markus: What's the one story, maybe it's a human story or a technical story or whatnot, um, that really stands out to you from your work, um, so far, um, with the Mars on Earth project? Maybe it's a, it's a minor encounter or something that you observed, but you feel like that is really standing out and that tells a story.

[01:12:55] Matjaz: I, it's very, very impossible to, uh, to just name one, you know, 

because I traveled the world and I made, I think I met, you know, the most brilliant minds. Uh, in their own fields and, um, they, each one of them, you know, they hold a special place in my heart, you know, so I don't know, I mean, one to mention would be, let's say Barbara Belvisi that I actually, I met her first time on my trip in LA that I mentioned that I talked before.

And back then, you know, we met. And she talked about her idea of doing this pods and completely, uh, closed loop system in Mojave Desert, which at that time it was nothing to show yet. So I was like, damn, it's such an interesting story. I would love to feature you, but we still have nothing to show. But then last year, uh, last year I was in Paris.

And I see, oh, Barbara, it's actually in Paris and they built a biopod, uh, which is actually an inflatable structure, um, that you can use for growing food in space, but again, also on earth in either, you know, uh, very cold or very hot environments. So I met with Barbara after a couple of years, it was, yeah, after four or five years and she had something to show.

And these photos. I think they're again, one of my favorites, um, because you could, with them, you can show this, the speed of progress in our, you know, development. Again, you can show innovation that it can help life on earth. You can see a extremely badass woman rocking, you know, in the space sector. Um, and yeah, and also just the design of the biopod.

It's definitely something being ready for the science fiction movie.

[01:14:57] Markus: Will he

let us link that photo to, to our show notes

[01:15:02] Matjaz: Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. and 

[01:15:04] Markus: Because then 

[01:15:05] Matjaz: you talked with her, right? You met her before in your 

[01:15:08] Markus: Now we had, we had Barbara on the show two

times and she is, she is truly fascinating

because I like her vision about why she does the things she does and she's truly inspiring.

And as you mentioned, she's badass. Lovely badass.

[01:15:24] Matjaz: Yeah. And talking about bad bads and, uh, you know, inspirational women. Then also comes to my mind, uh, this, uh, company a EL from Tokyo, where they have a female CEO and miss, uh, Lena Kojima. She actually, they claim they are the first. Space Entertainment Company. What that means is they created a satellite which can shoot out artificial shooting stars.

you know, you, you're going to have an anniversary of, I don't know, 1000 podcast, or, uh, you know, you're, you want to surprise one of, I don't know, one of your friends for wedding. You can, you know, pay, it's a bit pricey, but you can pay to, uh, AEL and say, on top of, you know, um, in Paris, 11 PM, give me free shooting stars and then this is going to happen.

So I think it's, you know, it's a great, especially from a marketing perspective, because this is how you, you get the stories going and getting some attention. But then of course there's satellites, they're gathering. Also, other valuable information and has also other use than just being a catapult for shooting stars around the world.

[01:16:49] Markus: fantastic. Fantastic story. Um, Matthias, um, if the call came, uh, would you go, would you leave earth and go into space?

[01:16:59] Matjaz: I would go. I think, uh, I think, you know, it's to be in the historic books, you know, as a first photographer in space. on Mars, uh, would be a risk we're taking. So, uh, it's very easy to find my website or Instagram or email. So, you know, either, you know, I speak a bit Chinese, so if there's Chinese, I can communicate with them.

If it's the American company, I'm ready. And, uh, yeah, find me and call me. I'm ready.

[01:17:31] Markus: I'm asking because there's a question, a recurring question that I keep asking on the show, and that question is. If you were to go into space, um, it's usually a long and boring trip, uh, because distances are very vast. So my question to you is what's the one piece of music, the one tune you would not want to miss on that journey into the unknown that you would want to pick and put on a playlist?

Because we have a playlist for the aspiring space traveler on Spotify. So what would be your contribution?

[01:18:06] Matjaz: It's gonna probably already have it. It's a Space Oddity from David Bovey. So

[01:18:15] Markus: Do you have, 

[01:18:16] Matjaz: Bovey,

[01:18:17] Markus: do we have another pick? Because that one is already taken.

[01:18:19] Matjaz: I know. What's the other one from David Bovey? About Major Tom.

[01:18:25] Markus: Well, Major Tom, it's already taken,

so 

[01:18:28] Matjaz: Okay. Okay. Then,

[01:18:30] Markus: It doesn't have to, it

doesn't necessarily have to do with 

[01:18:33] Matjaz: must. I know, but you know, if you're in the space that, uh, and then probably the opening song from Odyssey 2001 or recently 

the 

Barbie. 

[01:18:45] Markus: thus stoke, uh, spoke Sarathustra.

No, 

[01:18:49] Matjaz: Yeah. No, is it? So that, uh, the orchestra, so something dramatic, you know?

[01:18:56] Markus: Something dramatic.

[01:18:58] Matjaz: Yeah. I think that would be

[01:19:01] Markus: Good. And now my last question to you, Matthias. This is, this place here is called the Space Cafe Podcast. It's a coffee place, so to say, where we hang out and share ideas. And in coffee places, you know, and then when you, when you're tired, you energize yourself with an espresso with a very, um, intense shot of coffee.

Now, I challenge you to share an espresso for the mind with me and the audience. What could be an idea, a shot of inspiration you would like to share with me and the audience? Whatever kind of topic you want to choose from.

[01:19:41] Matjaz: So. I think it's just, uh, you know, the summary of what we were talking about, you know, I think the space and the new frontier, it really give us opportunity to basically start from scratch in a way, you know, to do the things right and be very, you know, again, inclusive. Uh, society. So I just, uh, I want to, yeah, finish on this, on this note, you know, let's, uh, let's do things right.

Let's, uh, collaborate no matter where you're from and, um, yeah, go, uh, reach to the stars.

[01:20:20] Markus: And I think it's also from what, what you have said so far is for what I've heard about China, I think it's also important on, on this note that you're mentioning that there are many equal worlds on earth and not just one world.

There is. A variety of different angles and they are equally valid. There's no one better than the other.

[01:20:47] Matjaz: Exactly. Well said.

[01:20:50] Markus: Fantastic. Um, Matias Tantic, um, this was incredibly interesting to hear your wisdom and your insights from a different part of my world. And yet at the same time, that wisdom about our common future. So thank you so much for this.

[01:21:12] Matjaz: Thank you so much for your time and a very pleasant conversation.

[01:21:15] Markus: Thank you everyone for sticking around. I love it. I truly love it when ideas are widening our horizons. Isn't this what this is all about? I mean, like seriously, learning is the coolest thing ever. And Matthias Definitely let me learn quite a bit about our beautiful planet and our beautiful time we live in, in the time of space exploration.

If you enjoyed this show as much as I did, consider telling a friend about it, a friend you feel like you can trust. is as nerdy, as interested in space exploration as you are. Maybe you can even make a couple of new friends by referring that show to someone. However, you will decide, um, if there's a little time left, um, in your world, consider giving us a rating for this show, um, on your favorite podcast platform.

And to be honest, I hate it. I'm asking you for this, but obviously it's the only language that the internet speaks. And if we want to grow the show, Uh, we need to tell the algorithms that are deciding what lives and what does not, um, that someone is act, actually liking this show. And so by your contribution, by your support, we're telling the algorithms to distribute the show to even wider audiences.

And this would be the coolest thing ever to me, to let others in. You know, a little space cafe podcast universe. Anyways, um, I'm really excited, um, about this episode and I'm really excited about the one coming up in two weeks from now. Thank you, my friends for sticking around and your enthusiasm so far.

It's been a couple of years now. Thank you so much for this and, um, talk to you in two weeks from now. Thank you. Bye bye.